re: The eternal debate. - Page 7 - White Knight Chronicles II

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TheHighlander Toppu Neko s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1626 since: Sep 2011	Jun 20, 12 at 9:13am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	Log in to remove this advertisement quote Adrienne quote biggabertha lol, using a placement of power and leadership to enforce rules and regulations, I like it! But seriously, I keep forgetting that he's the guild leader and thus needs to set concrete examples in order to keep order. Actually, the rule is that hackers aren't allowed in the guild town or in a room specifically made for members of the guild to quest. As I understand it, what the member does on his own time, outside of the guild is their own decision. TheHighlander just asks that hackers stay away from the guild and urges members not to quest with hackers. It's a rule that everyone in the guild agreed to before joining, its not like it was suddenly made after reaching 135 members. You are quite correct Adrienne. Thank you. ------------------- Guild: Nekomimis FTW! KOSMOS, SS, GR: 30 LVL: 80 (4 rebirths) >^..^< Shion, SwordMage, GR: 15 LVL: 60 (0 rebirths) http://www.facebook.com/NekomimisFTW
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TheHighlander Toppu Neko s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1626 since: Sep 2011	Jun 20, 12 at 9:16am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	quote arieta TheHighlander if you don't want to play with a hacker that doesn't mean you should talk bad about them or forbbiding other members of your guild to play with them. we arent bad person just because we used modded save,i use my file only to help others WHO want my help it's not like i need anything from this game for myself. And hacker can be very useful for diff things,fr example i was yesterday play with someone and we were start to talk and he said to me he lost her first account and he needed to create new account and new character and i told him to send me both save files and i assign his old file to new account whitout hacking or anything is that wrong thing to do? not to mention krishen who were talking bad about hacks and even block me now asking is it cheating if hacker patch new quest,i want even reply to that. I don't forbid people from anything. The rules of the guild are set to do the following. No hackers are allowed in the guild towns or georama rooms specifically created for guild members. So anyone in the guild who has a hacker in their friends list needs to ensure that their friend uses a legitimate save when entering our rooms. the rule forbids people in the guild from using a hacked save themself, and it discourages the routine use of 'help' from hackers. Personally I think that players that ride the coat tails of a cheater are cheating themselves and those around them. However I can't and won't police people's friends lists, or who they play with outside the guild. So climb down of your high horse, cheater person. ------------------- Guild: Nekomimis FTW! KOSMOS, SS, GR: 30 LVL: 80 (4 rebirths) >^..^< Shion, SwordMage, GR: 15 LVL: 60 (0 rebirths) http://www.facebook.com/NekomimisFTW
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Kayla Mischievous Neko-Pixy mad messenger total posts: 281 since: Jan 2012	Jun 20, 12 at 9:17am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	Well of course. It's just that by being a member of a guild, you become something like a team player. And if you don't play by the team's rules. Bye, see you never. =) quote krishen quote Kayla quote crimson-falcon being a leader of guild = giving orders within the guild outside the guild you are a normal player same as iam even if im in a guild the leader have no right to tell me play with this and not play with that But he does have the right to expel you no matter what. =) your making it as if we are a bunch of monsters kayla yes he has the right to expel anyone but what ever one does in his spare time is his business as long as its not happening in the guild is what matters no? ------------------- WKC2: Character: Kayla (Polkan Warrior) Guild: Nekomimis FTW! KoA: Character: Nadia (Pixy Universalist) Greatsword and Faeblade wielder.
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Kayla Mischievous Neko-Pixy mad messenger total posts: 281 since: Jan 2012	Jun 20, 12 at 9:18am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	Oh well, TheHighlander is a person with a nice heart. I always make the rules sound worse then they are.=) ------------------- WKC2: Character: Kayla (Polkan Warrior) Guild: Nekomimis FTW! KoA: Character: Nadia (Pixy Universalist) Greatsword and Faeblade wielder.
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arieta unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Jun 20, 12 at 9:25am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	quote TheHighlander I don't forbid people from anything. The rules of the guild are set to do the following. No hackers are allowed in the guild towns or georama rooms specifically created for guild members. So anyone in the guild who has a hacker in their friends list needs to ensure that their friend uses a legitimate save when entering our rooms. the rule forbids people in the guild from using a hacked save themself, and it discourages the routine use of 'help' from hackers. Personally I think that players that ride the coat tails of a cheater are cheating themselves and those around them. However I can't and won't police people's friends lists, or who they play with outside the guild. So climb down of your high horse, cheater person. k i respect that and i personaly have always avoid neko rooms.
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TheHighlander Toppu Neko s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1626 since: Sep 2011	Jun 20, 12 at 9:33am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	quote biggabertha Hmmm.... Not to always throw a spanner in the works.... but to be fair, the whole education system is a really bad way to evaluate one's performance - specifically an exam. It DOES test one's individual ability to remember, recollect and organise their thoughts into specific criteria but I can assure you that exams are far less valuable than formative assessment throughout a course or module. I'm quite familiar with exams, I am degree educated thank you very much. And as someone that is diagnosed with ADD, I find exams to be particularly difficult. The point I was making was with regards to cheating on exams, not the point, efficascy or legitimacy of exams in anyone's personal opinion. quote biggabertha Besides, what of the cheating done by governments (the promises, the lies, the words used to rise to a placement of power), the cheating done by virtually all taxpayers through their accountants (pay less tax by employing an accountant to like, DO all the work for you) and the cheating most do by DRIVING to work instead of taking the bus and saving some carbon footprint..? Who cares? What does this have to do with this game, or my guild and it's rules? quote biggabertha At best, save file modders save you time. Alright, you won't know or learn how to play if you didn't already and it's not likely that you ever did want to learn because some gamers are casual gamers or gamers that only have less than two hours a day to play. WKC2 is a poor choice of game for a casual gamer since story mode alone involves 75+ hours of play. quote biggabertha At worse, save file modders will make you dependent on their help but at the end of the day, it's still help, something that any single legit individual, just can't give. Find a team..? You're lucky that all you lose is time when you fail a quest, unlike exams that cost a large sum of money and extensive time. How is it help if it leaves you dependent on them in future? What's that old saying, give a man a fish and he will eat tonight, teach a man to fish and he will eat for life. Teach people to fish. quote biggabertha To summarise, I am not saying that cheating is right nor am I saying it is wrong. It is a means to get what you want with less effort than others. An unfair means, perhaps - but life is never fair. Good people do die first, everything takes longer than it should do and no one wants to do more work than they have to without due reward. Because when a game turns to work, it isn't fun anymore. (unless you're a workaholic or masochistic) So, you agree it's unfair? Rationalizations aside, it's unfair. I want a fair and level playing field for my guild members. I want them to learn to play the game and enjoy it. The satisfaction of beating a difficult quest using the lessons learned by playing with legitimate players is infinitely more than that of rising the coat tails of a cheater who is 'helping' you. At the end of the day, my guild has the rules it has, and has had since it started. We've never hidden the no cheating policy or rule, and if anything advertize it quite clearly. If you want to play in a guild without cheats, you have a few choices, my guild is one of them. I'm not sure of the purpose of your post here, except it seems to take a swipe at having a rule against cheating and the idea that cheating is wrong. quote crimson-falcon being a leader of guild = giving orders within the guild outside the guild you are a normal player same as iam even if im in a guild the leader have no right to tell me play with this and not play with that As I said "I can't and won't police people's friends lists, or who they play with outside the guild." quote arieta quote TheHighlander I don't forbid people from anything. The rules of the guild are set to do the following. No hackers are allowed in the guild towns or georama rooms specifically created for guild members. So anyone in the guild who has a hacker in their friends list needs to ensure that their friend uses a legitimate save when entering our rooms. the rule forbids people in the guild from using a hacked save themself, and it discourages the routine use of 'help' from hackers. Personally I think that players that ride the coat tails of a cheater are cheating themselves and those around them. However I can't and won't police people's friends lists, or who they play with outside the guild. So climb down of your high horse, cheater person. k i respect that and i personaly have always avoid neko rooms. Thank you. My apologies for the cheater person remark, I was allowing my irritation to show. I won't do it again. Edit: Jun 20, 12 10:41am ------------------- Guild: Nekomimis FTW! KOSMOS, SS, GR: 30 LVL: 80 (4 rebirths) >^..^< Shion, SwordMage, GR: 15 LVL: 60 (0 rebirths) http://www.facebook.com/NekomimisFTW
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TheHighlander Toppu Neko s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1626 since: Sep 2011	Jun 20, 12 at 9:47am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	This is my last comment on this thread. I am sitting here absolutely seething at the situation. Good grief. Someone, tell me how the hell is it that a guild leader having a rule against cheating within their guild is the one that has to defend their conduct and rules? How screwed up is it that you have to defend being against cheating? This is one of the many effects of cheating within a game. People rationalize and defend cheating to the point where opposing it somehow becomes the wrong thing to do, after all they are just playing their way... Sorry, no. cheating is cheating, whether you dress it up as help or not, it's still cheating. I won't cheat in a game and I won't cheat in life.I will sure as hell no longer defend myself in a discussion like this where common sense right and wrong are turned on their head to the extent that taking a stand against cheating is wrong. Edit: Jun 20, 12 11:47am ------------------- Guild: Nekomimis FTW! KOSMOS, SS, GR: 30 LVL: 80 (4 rebirths) >^..^< Shion, SwordMage, GR: 15 LVL: 60 (0 rebirths) http://www.facebook.com/NekomimisFTW
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blaz seek-o-holic total posts: 965 neopoints: 347 since: Aug 2011	Jun 20, 12 at 9:51am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	quote TheHighlander This is my last comment on this thread. I am sitting here absolutely seething at the situation. Good grief. Someone, tell me how the hell is it that a guild leader having a rule against cheating within their guild is the one that has to defend their conduct and rules? How screwed up is it that you have to defend being against cheating? This is one of the many effects of cheating within a game. People rationalize and defend cheating to the point where opposing it somehow becomes the wrong thing to do, after all they are just playing their way... Sorry, no. cheating is cheating, whether you dress it up as help or not, it's still cheating. I won't cheat in a game and I won't cheat in life.I will sure as hell no longer defend myself in a discussion like this where common sense right and wrong are turned on their head to the extent that taking a stand against cheating is wrong.
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ai8643 I Like Tacos forum fever total posts: 366 since: May 2009	Jun 20, 12 at 9:52am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	This thread..... it amuses me. <.< All i got to say is if you dont want to quest with the people with modded saves/Abnormal stats. Then simply dont. A polite " leave please" will do nicely. But if they refuse or act like jerks then banhammer away. Not hard to simply mind block someone if they are in the same room, its your own strong disposition towards modders that make you so aware of them. ------------------- WKC2 - Musashi - 4 Rebirths GR30 SS/Bow/Axe/Spear/Divine PSN : antonio8643
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Unease_Lemming unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Jun 20, 12 at 9:55am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	quote TheHighlander This is my last comment on this thread. I am sitting here absolutely seething at the situation. Good grief. Someone, tell me how the hell is it that a guild leader having a rule against cheating within their guild is the one that has to defend their conduct and rules? How screwed up is it that you have to defend being against cheating? This is one of the many effects of cheating within a game. People rationalize and defend cheating to the point where opposing it somehow becomes the wrong thing to do, after all they are just playing their way... Sorry, no. cheating is cheating, whether you dress it up as help or not, it's still cheating. I won't cheat in a game and I won't cheat in life.I will sure as hell no longer defend myself in a discussion like this where common sense right and wrong are turned on their head to the extent that taking a stand against cheating is wrong. clap clap clap Could not have said it better myself. Beautifully written.
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biggabertha Pianist forum fever total posts: 386 since: Jan 2012	Jun 20, 12 at 10:33am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	The point of my post was to throw a spanner in the works - to get a debate going amongst other members of the forum, not just one or two members. I wasn't picking on your post directly - just pointing out other points for other members to think about and maybe post their opinion about it. I feel that this topic isn't simply black and white, I believe that there are many shades of grey inbetween. I see it similarly to a necessary evil - such as taxes and a government. Again, I feel it's somewhat narrow-minded to not consider all the possibilities, reasonings and circumstances first before judging someone's actions because I used to do it in my previous Online RPGs. Which is why I shouldn't respond to your post at me because it'll become a debate between me and you again. I don't think that kind of drama is something either of us wants - I do see your points and I do accept them but I wanted everyone to see my views too. That and it's usually a good thing to make sure of one's standings in things to better reflect on yourself. Which is another reason why I like this thread so much - it is such a good topic because not everyone will always be open or confident enough to speak up. (By the way... why do you regularly double/triple post..? Is it the limitations of the quotes/quotation?)
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TheHighlander Toppu Neko s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1626 since: Sep 2011	Jun 20, 12 at 10:38am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	quote biggabertha (By the way... why do you regularly double/triple post..? Is it the limitations of the quotes/quotation?) Usually it's because I post a reply to the message I am reading. Occasionally I will go back and collect them into one post. ------------------- Guild: Nekomimis FTW! KOSMOS, SS, GR: 30 LVL: 80 (4 rebirths) >^..^< Shion, SwordMage, GR: 15 LVL: 60 (0 rebirths) http://www.facebook.com/NekomimisFTW
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Kayla Mischievous Neko-Pixy mad messenger total posts: 281 since: Jan 2012	Jun 20, 12 at 11:16am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	Well, the fact is he CAN. The reason why Kosmos is a good leader and I would be a dictator is that I'm an extremist. ^^ ------------------- WKC2: Character: Kayla (Polkan Warrior) Guild: Nekomimis FTW! KoA: Character: Nadia (Pixy Universalist) Greatsword and Faeblade wielder.
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Nice Person Oh lala :) forum junky total posts: 99 since: Mar 2012	Jun 20, 12 at 11:56am ^ re: The eternal debate.
	I just read over the last few pages of comments. I can understand those of you who dislike cheating. However, comparing cheating in a video game to cheating in real life are two completely different extremes. I am certain many of us have used some form of cheat in other games we played growing up as children till now to bypass certain levels, tedious work, or just to mess around for fun. I know I have cheated in some of my Nintendo and PS2 games in the past just to mess around. Comparing cheating in a video game to cheating in real life though... that's quite the major comparison though. The scales just don't even compare since real life consequences are obviously way more serious than what would happen to you in a video game. We can blame the current influx of cheater/hackers for plaguing Geonet and killing the NA/UK community. Or we can debate about how these players want to help the community. I am sure we can all debate about X amount of reasons that justify cheating or not cheating in WKC forever. After reading the last few pages of comments though, it's obvious this thread is becoming more than a debate at this point. The major problem ultimately lies with D3P and Sony. Since they have shown zero interest to remove cheaters/hackers from the NA/UK server, it is no wonder why there are so many now. They can't even moderate the boards effectively until members like Menthos call them every day to do something about it. I'm sorry, but that practically says it all about how these companies view this game and its NA/UK players. Since neither of these companies addressed the cheater/hacker situation as soon as it broke out, the cycle of tension between WKC cheaters and WKC legitimate players will continue until Geonet is gone or when everyone stops playing the game sadly. Seeing as it has been months since the cheater/modder breakout began, I still don't foresee either of these companies doing anything about it. ------------------- WKC2 AVI (JPN): Penelope, GR 35, Spear/Bow WKC2 AVI (NA): Sakura, GR 30, Mage/Bow/SS WKC1 AVI: Ophelia, GR 15, Spear/SS/Bow Playing PC MMORPGs and White Knight Chronicles II (JPN)
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Hinagiku =^.^= neko kou gou =^.^= starting to like it total posts: 60 since: Jan 2012	Jun 20, 12 at 1:50pm ^ re: The eternal debate.
	1) Kayla & Krishen - I can guarantee you that Highlander has never expelled anyone from the guild for anything like that. There has never been a need and I hope there never will be. In fact, I don't think he has ever kicked anyone except for a handful who stopped playing altogether over 6 months ago and that was after trying multiple times to contact them. The one or two people who have ever chosen to cheat have been respectful enough to resign first so that Highlander was never put in a bad position. Thankfully people who have friends with modded files, those friends are cool enough to be respectful and abide by the wishes and rules of the guild rooms. You both know that. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Kayla was making the point that Highlander has the "right" to carry out the rules as he sees fit since he is the guild leader. And perhaps Kayla is saying she would be a bit more strict. I believe that Krishen is concerned that the statement and sentiment expressed by Kayla might be misconstrued by those who don't know us as well, and it might come across that we are a very harsh and demanding guild. Which is not the case and we all know that to be so. But wrong conclusions are often drawn by others. I appreciate that you both are trying to protect Highlander and the nekos, each from a different PoV. Highlander is furious that folks are fussing and that he is having to defend the rightful position of not cheating, which is quite frankly ridiculous (not that he is furious, but that he is having to defend). Highlander is the best guild leader around. You aren't going to find anyone who puts the time in that he does, who gives all the credit of guild success to the members and who isn't a slavedriver. He helps others long before he works on his own stuff. Lots of us reached gr30 before he did and many of us have platinumed the game and he hasn't yet. He spends more time working for the guild. It is beyond STUPID that he has to defend himself. Okay, that rant over. 2) For a quick address about games not being the same as real life and it is "okay" to cheat in games cause it isn't the same...yadda yadda. What you do, wherever you are, whatever you are doing, what choices you make - that is who you are. Doesn't matter if you are at work, at home, with your family, wife, mom, sister, kids, friends, online, chat, email, school, bar, game...it is all the same. You are the same person. The choices and decisions you make reflect who you are. If you cheat just a little here on a test cause the teacher isn't looking or you keep a bit of cash from the til cause the boss "owes" you anyway, is that wrong? It's okay to have that drink with your cute co-worker tonight cause your spouse is taking care of an ill parent this weekend. Not gonna hurt anything! So D3/L5 didn't release the rest of the DLC, it is okay to break Sony's rules. Suuuurrreee. "It is just a game." Sorry, a cheater is a cheater is a cheater. What you do wherever you are reflects your personal character. So, you are a casual gamer...If you don't want to play a difficult game, then choose a breezy one when you want to relax. I think we all do that from time to time. But what is the purpose of playing a hard game and cheating? What does it say about you? How does it speak to your real life character? Hmmmm. I have met a number of people in this game so far and I find it interesting - those who are truly against cheating ans how they are "in real life" and those who don't really care. There seems to be a connection. But there is no difference. You are who you are. People can stop with the bull about "it is just a game" stuff. 3) Illustration - Large glass of water = life. Cheating = deadly poison. How much cheating/poison is okay to put in that glass? a cup? a drop? a microscopic amount? How much are you comfortable with? How much before the water is tainted? How much before the water will kill you? Does it make a difference how much poison is put in the glass or will it kill you the same - little or a lot? Yeah, that is what I thought. ------------------- WKC2 Avatar1: HINAGIKU - Bow & Mage LV80/GR30 Avatar2: MIU AMAHA - Mage LV70/GR19 Guild: Nekomimis FTW! Top TEN/lvl 10 open to new members of all GR/EXP http://www.facebook.com/NekomimisFTW
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The eternal debate. - Page 7

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