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skythelegend the ascended form of a ferret s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1563 since: Nov 2006	Jul 08, 08 at 01:06PM Advance Wars Realism
	Okay this is a place for everyone to discuss what elements in the Advance Wars series are realistic and by that I mean what would happen in real life, like people shooting eachother, that's realism because it actually happens, something else we'll discuss are any unrealistic elements, like how infantry fly away when they're killed, that dosn't happen in real life so it is unrealistic. Rhas if you've decided to continue our little arguement about RPing in games then this is where we'll do it, oh and just to make sure you understand, it's a turn based strategy. ------------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhRx7Gr0Qw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEl42bCAgyc A hive of ferocious little bleeps all stampeding past your frontline, now that's power.
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RhasiirTheArcher Peace, Freedom, and Bacon and Eggs forum raider total posts: 2561 since: Dec 2006	Jul 08, 08 at 01:36PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	Great. Look, our conversation over advance wars started with whether or not it could be considered an RPG by the definition that you play the role of a character. Even if it were a "military tactician" you aren't playing a role, you're just heightening the game's experience by acting that way, which there's no problem with. But you can't say it's an RPG, because it's not intended to be, just like how racing games aren't, as there is no role there, just racing, or the first 5 battlefield games, as they have no role to play, you're just some random soldier in some random war. Halo can, by definition, be considered an RPG, because you're playing a role, albeit doesn't have the "elements" an RPG does, which aren't required, just expected of one. BioShock IS classed as an RPG, despite being a shoot em up. Don't no one respond in a "wtf are you talking about?" manner, this is a conversation skythelegend and I are carrying over from another forum. If you'd want to chip in, go ahead. This message was edited by RhasiirTheArcher on Jul 10 2008. ------------------- ^^ Visit the Bad Company Forum!^^
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skythelegend the ascended form of a ferret s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1563 since: Nov 2006	Jul 09, 08 at 12:58PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	quote RhasiirTheArcher the first 5 battlefield games, as they have no role to play, you're just some random soldier in some random war You do take on the role of a random soldier and how random the war is depends on your point of view, it can take less than five seconds to name your character and the war they're in, in Star Wars Battlefront, similer to Battlefield, I usually play as sniper for the rebels and am a bounty hunter/mercenary, I only work for the Rebellion for 100 credits per kill I make and I get a lot of kills, if I die once then I lose, but nine out of ten times I get through with about 50 kills, that's 5000 creds to my character and five minutes spent on another planet being the best sniper in the galaxy, there are only a few games where you can't RP such as Warioware stuff like that, Final Fantasy has some limited RPing to offer. The predeployed maps are the most realistic as there is less chance of recieving an unlimited amount of reinforcements, so much like a real war, you have to make do with what you're given and there's much more incentive to keeping your units alive when you konw you can't just get some more later on, this forces you to act more like a real tactician because when your forces are limited, every man counts. ------------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhRx7Gr0Qw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEl42bCAgyc A hive of ferocious little bleeps all stampeding past your frontline, now that's power.
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RhasiirTheArcher Peace, Freedom, and Bacon and Eggs forum raider total posts: 2561 since: Dec 2006	Jul 10, 08 at 10:23AM re: Advance Wars Realism
	quote skythelegend quote RhasiirTheArcher the first 5 battlefield games, as they have no role to play, you're just some random soldier in some random war You do take on the role of a random soldier and how random the war is depends on your point of view, it can take less than five seconds to name your character and the war they're in, in Star Wars Battlefront, similer to Battlefield, I usually play as sniper for the rebels and am a bounty hunter/mercenary, I only work for the Rebellion for 100 credits per kill I make and I get a lot of kills, if I die once then I lose, but nine out of ten times I get through with about 50 kills, that's 5000 creds to my character and five minutes spent on another planet being the best sniper in the galaxy, there are only a few games where you can't RP such as Warioware stuff like that, Final Fantasy has some limited RPing to offer. The predeployed maps are the most realistic as there is less chance of recieving an unlimited amount of reinforcements, so much like a real war, you have to make do with what you're given and there's much more incentive to keeping your units alive when you konw you can't just get some more later on, this forces you to act more like a real tactician because when your forces are limited, every man counts. I didn't even think people could get this pathetic when playing videogames. I concede, you win, for the simple fact that you need something in your life to hold on to. Well, something OTHER then those 5,000 credits. Enjoy the victory. ------------------- ^^ Visit the Bad Company Forum!^^
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skythelegend the ascended form of a ferret s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1563 since: Nov 2006	Jul 10, 08 at 04:47PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	quote RhasiirTheArcher I didn't even think people could get this pathetic when playing videogames Videogames are a form of escapism, like reading a book or watching TV and haven't you ever watched a TV show or read a book and wished you were in it? If a certain game, no matter how good it is began to bore you little by little when you played it would you rather get rid of it or give yourself new reasons to play it? RPing is an extension to the videogame form of escapism, in AW I have a campaign over a series of custom and exiting maps starring myself as a CO, though I use Sturm to represent me, not just for skill but for the armour and mask too What I'm doing there is similer to what writers do when they write a book with themselves as the main character and I'm not talking biography, is my RPing in most of my games I've had for years really any more pathetic than them? quote RhasiirTheArcher Enjoy the victory What victory? Oh so you've begun to understand that they're just games and what people do while they're playing them isn't meant to be taken seriously, most people say the games themselves aren't meant to be taken seriously, but you already know that so I didn't need to mention it, in fact you've taken it on to another level, my RPing has a way of actually making me better at the games I play, like the bounty hunter thing in Star Wars Battlefront, I want at least a certain amount of kills and to make it more beleivable I make each kill about money, so that make me reach for a higher kill count and me being in a real war means if I die, that's it for me, so I transfer this ingame by letting my side lose if I die, so I always do my best not to die, the result is that I'm able to annoy the best, sadly, due to lack of live I'm unable to play against the best at least I know I'm good and I enjoy each round as opposed to sitting while staring blankly at the screen. ------------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhRx7Gr0Qw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEl42bCAgyc A hive of ferocious little bleeps all stampeding past your frontline, now that's power.
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RhasiirTheArcher Peace, Freedom, and Bacon and Eggs forum raider total posts: 2561 since: Dec 2006	Jul 11, 08 at 08:49AM re: Advance Wars Realism
	quote skythelegend quote RhasiirTheArcher I didn't even think people could get this pathetic when playing videogames Videogames are a form of escapism, like reading a book or watching TV and haven't you ever watched a TV show or read a book and wished you were in it? No, I'm happy with my life, and I'm not a diluted moron. quote What I'm doing there is similer to what writers do when they write a book with themselves as the main character and I'm not talking biography, is my RPing in most of my games I've had for years really any more pathetic than them? You DO know there is a saying that goes, "Good authors place themselves in a book little by little, while bad ones place themselves in it altogether," right? Guess what? Bad authors are pathetic. quote quote RhasiirTheArcher Enjoy the victory What victory? Oh so you've begun to understand that they're just games and what people do while they're playing them isn't meant to be taken seriously, most people say the games themselves aren't meant to be taken seriously, but you already know that so I didn't need to mention it, in fact you've taken it on to another level, my RPing has a way of actually making me better at the games I play, like the bounty hunter thing in Star Wars Battlefront, I want at least a certain amount of kills and to make it more beleivable I make each kill about money, so that make me reach for a higher kill count and me being in a real war means if I die, that's it for me, so I transfer this ingame by letting my side lose if I die, so I always do my best not to die, the result is that I'm able to annoy the best, sadly, due to lack of live I'm unable to play against the best at least I know I'm good and I enjoy each round as opposed to sitting while staring blankly at the screen. 50 kills is average on LIVE, first off, against NPCs an average is 80. Second off, I don't take GAMES seriously and hate a GAME, it's the PLAYER, because most of the time, the PLAYER is the idiot that ruins the experience for me. So no, the victory in question is the one that you earned over the fact that Advance Wars is an RPG because you made it so. Now shut up and get back to killin them Impies, soldja boi. ------------------- ^^ Visit the Bad Company Forum!^^
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skythelegend the ascended form of a ferret s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1563 since: Nov 2006	Jul 11, 08 at 01:27PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	quote RhasiirTheArcher I'm not a diluted moron Good, I hate things that get diluted, especially drinks, but you miss the point of what I'm saying, the point of a good book is to make you wish you were a part of it, same with good TV and most games, if they don't make anyone who read, watched or played them wish they were real then they've failed. quote RhasiirTheArcher I don't take GAMES seriously and hate a GAME, it's the PLAYER, because most of the time, the PLAYER is the idiot that ruins the experience for me Well if you don't like the way you play then stop playing Okay, I'm just messing with you there, but how many of those times another player pissed you off, happened because they were screwing around with something that got them killed? Obviously a lot, but you shouldn't be too hard on someone who's new or hasn't experienced everything the universe has to offer yet. Though I do share your view on TKers, they should all bleep off and die. quote RhasiirTheArcher 50 kills is average on LIVE Even an n00b can become a minor nuisance, so being average at best basically confirms that I'd be able to annoy a pro, not beat, just annoy like Oblivion's guards when the player has a bounty, we swat them away only for more to keep coming and they can eventually bring our health down to under 100 points but they can never kill us due to our superior intellect. I've typed up a nice little post here, however I am wasting my time as you obviously hate anything that isn't real or based purely on factual events, just remember that everyone in the world has the ability to creatre entire universes using just their minds, it's called imagination, all fiction is there to feed it, if you ask a child what they want to be when they grow up do you jump down their throats for not having the qualification when they say they want to be an astronaut? Because they're dreaming, making wishes, wanting to be more than what they are and to you that is the worst thing anyone could do. ------------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhRx7Gr0Qw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEl42bCAgyc A hive of ferocious little bleeps all stampeding past your frontline, now that's power.
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RhasiirTheArcher Peace, Freedom, and Bacon and Eggs forum raider total posts: 2561 since: Dec 2006	Jul 11, 08 at 08:46PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	quote skythelegend quote RhasiirTheArcher I'm not a diluted moron Good, I hate things that get diluted, especially drinks, but you miss the point of what I'm saying, the point of a good book is to make you wish you were a part of it, same with good TV and most games, if they don't make anyone who read, watched or played them wish they were real then they've failed. It's to convey a story, not make you feel a part of it... You can like a story, but not wish it was real. ------ I was referring only to the morons and such on forums, like N606, and TKers. I don't mind newbies, I help them out a lot and have a helluva lot more patience with them than other people I know. ---------- Is that how you see my view? You seem to have it all wrong, I mean, for god's sake, I'm in Whodunnit and my friend's MHF2 RP. I don't mind RPing as a character from the game with other people, because that's fun, but to actually sit there and IMAGINE you are either something that doesn't exist, like making up the role of military commander in Advance Wars, sorry, but that's a good example, just to make a game more enjoyable? THAT I have a problem with. I don't have any reason to back it up, so don't expect it. I just don't see the point, not hate, in RPing in a game where it's more fun not to. I find getting a headshot more fun when I'm measuring it as my skill, not the soldier's. Games that are meant to be RP'd will let you know, and in those, it's fine. Hence the term, "Role Playing Game". You find Advance Wars or SWBF2 listed in the RPG section of a gaming site or store, let me know. Just so you know, you may want to look into people's hobbies before passing judgement. I find it hard to believe I'm designing creatures and stories for a game I'm helping making, as well as hard to believe that I'm a graphic designer, if I don't have, or hate, imagination. ------------------- ^^ Visit the Bad Company Forum!^^
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skythelegend the ascended form of a ferret s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1563 since: Nov 2006	Jul 12, 08 at 11:48AM re: Advance Wars Realism
	quote RhasiirTheArcher find Advance Wars or SWBF2 listed in the RPG section of a gaming site or store As if, Advance Wars is a strategy game and SWBF is a multiplayer team based shootem'up, I appear to have moved a little far away from my original arguement though, which was that you play the role of a random soldier in SWBF or a military commander in Advance Wars. quote RhasiirTheArcher making up the role of a military commander in Advance Wars quote RhasiirTheArcher that doesn't exist quote RhasiirTheArcher I have a problem with I wasn't taking you out of context here, I just cut out everything I didn't understand and/or didn't need, I made up my own COs for a custom campaign, that's why I RP in Advance Wars, so I don't go red team vs blue team on every map made for the campaign, they all use already existing COs, but without the story it just becomes a war room map and like all other war room maps it wont need a follow up map and OS will be forced to fight everyone on their own, no OS, BM and GE vs a souped up YC like in the proper campaign. quote RhasiirTheArcher You can like a story, but not wish it was real. True but the best stories are supposed to make you make you part of them, reading LOTR:ROTK I was finishing the first book and for a few seconds I saw from Peregrin Took's point of view the armies of Gondor and Rohan charging toward the army of Mordor, JRR Tolkien wrote a fantastic trilogy there and he even created his own universe, many aspects of which can easily be brought into our own homes, it's surprising how many fictional languages it's possible to actually learn and the architecture of most structures is easy enough to replicate, if you have the know how. I imagine myself to be a peaceful human being who wouldn't hurt a fly, obviously no such thing exists, if I see a fly I swat it down straight away, not only that but humans, like anything else that breathes, are ruthless killers, even if all we kill and eat are plants, we'd still be attacking another creature by taking it's food supply, it's the natural order, something must die for another to live, but other than that, I'm harmless ------------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhRx7Gr0Qw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEl42bCAgyc A hive of ferocious little bleeps all stampeding past your frontline, now that's power.
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Silent_Nightmare Corporal high on "N" total posts: 750 since: Jan 2008	Jul 13, 08 at 02:17PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	One of the big things that always bothered me in the unrealism factor is that a single infantry unit can stop a air unit from passing it or a tank from proceeding any farther, when in real life, a tank dosent stop for people standing infront of it. Another point i never liked, they made attack helicopter the paper of the sky. In real life, apaches and hind-D's and stuff like that are tough as rocks and have firepower out the wazzoo. a Lowly neotank shouldnt be any bit of a problem for 1, never mind 5! The next thing i don't like is that fighter jets cant attack ground units! and dont have machine guns! In real life, they carry A-A missiles, A-ground missile, and a chaingun(s). but in here, they only have A-A missiles! Another thing i dont like is the fact that when you capture an enemy HQ, the battle is over. I know thats one of the prime gameplay factors of advance wars, though i dont like it, because in real life when that happens, all soldiers lack is intelligance and communications through-out eachothers divisions and squads. Though soldiers still have alotta fight left in them, and this may even strengthen our resolve to fight harder and maybe even take back their HQ. The last point i make, so my post isnt a page long, is that battleships are weaker than bombers. When theyre firing 5 humongous assed shells, and it dosent even take out a md tank unit! nuf said. for realism, im not really seeing to much in that department, but i may have some stuff in the future.. ------------------- The cowardly... Run- The Weak... Die- The Strong... Fight- Strong, Proud, Fight with the Canadian Forces. ---Finally its close---
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skythelegend the ascended form of a ferret s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1563 since: Nov 2006	Jul 13, 08 at 02:53PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	I knew you'd enjoy this thread, about the HQ capture though, if communications cease between an army, even if they outnumber and outgun an enemy, if the enemy still has comms (HQ) they have the advantage of knowing what's happening and should just outlast their remaining enemies, an army without the proper information behind it is just a disorganized rabble. quote Silent_Nightmare One of the big things that always bothered me in the unrealism factor is that a single infantry unit can stop a air unit from passing it or a tank from proceeding any farther, when in real life, a tank dosent stop for people standing infront of it Well, there were those tanks that stopped for that protestor a few years ago, but when those people are the ones the tank is meant to kill, then it is a mystery, the air units? I thought they'd solve that on a console version of AW, but instead they did BW, I hate that game purely because it loses even more strategy than AWDS, I would love to have seen an Advance Wars game with 3 dimensions so air units could move over ground units and we could decide how high for air units to go or how deep for submarines to dive, I mean it's not like aircraft in the real world fly 3 inches from the ground or submarines dive so they're barely covered is it?. ------------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhRx7Gr0Qw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEl42bCAgyc A hive of ferocious little bleeps all stampeding past your frontline, now that's power.
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Silent_Nightmare Corporal high on "N" total posts: 750 since: Jan 2008	Jul 13, 08 at 03:36PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	Yeah, your ight about the HQ part. Though if that ever does happen, were told to take out helmets off an chuck them someplace. Why you ask? hell if i know. They probably have some kinda chip inside the bleeping helmet, i dunno. So without them the enemy cant rack us and all they have is UAV, which isnt like battlefield where it only takes a split second for it to show up. plus, you can hide from UAV, so its not that they have a permanent eye on all of your movements. If an your HQ is ever captured, your also just advised to get a good place to hide and set up a perimeter and stay away from any conflict unless it comes to you. Then wait for an allied squad to come and link up with you or try your radio and see if theres any allies in your vicinty. Though raido communications are not advised, and unlike the helmet part, were told to smash our radios with the butts of our rifles so the enemy can relay our communications. Though yes, your right, the army without an HQ is at a serious disadvantage, also becuase of the obvious, no air support and no artillery support. quote skythelegend Well, there were those tanks that stopped for that protestor a few years ago, but when those people are the ones the tank is meant to kill, then it is a mystery, They only stopped because the people were as you said "protesters" and in the world stages eyes, running protesters over with tanks is unhamain, but honestly, who gives a shit? if someone is stupid enough to stand infront of a tank, you deserve to die if you ask me. Though in war, dont say its a mysetery, because if theres an enemy soldier caught infront of a tank, they will not only try to run over them, they will also get their gunner on the 50 and start ripping the guy to shreads of his former self. Oh and about the air unit thing, did you know that theres a Battlefield 2142 mod that makes the game liek advance wars?!? i havnt tried it cus i cant download anything till i get home. But if you have the game, do try it out! and the story is that its a multiplayer game where you and other people fight a real strong black hole army in missions and what not. Theres air units, sea units, land units and all that good stuff from advance wars. The specifics of it are kinda unknown to me though. The way i found out about it was by googling "bf2142 mods" and going to a site that sais "Top 100 bf2142 mods" and the advance wars conversion mod is the #2 top mod for the game. To add to the topic... I also dont like the CO's that look un-CO-ish. Like flak. What CO dosent wear a shirt but just a jacket?!? Now i would really like some CO's in accuall army airforce or navy attire. Like Jess, she is in full femal army attire. I would just like to see CO's that are unique but are laos in character. ------------------- The cowardly... Run- The Weak... Die- The Strong... Fight- Strong, Proud, Fight with the Canadian Forces. ---Finally its close---
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RhasiirTheArcher Peace, Freedom, and Bacon and Eggs forum raider total posts: 2561 since: Dec 2006	Jul 13, 08 at 04:53PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	quote Silent_Nightmare The next thing i don't like is that fighter jets cant attack ground units! and dont have machine guns! In real life, they carry A-A missiles, A-ground missile, and a chaingun(s). but in here, they only have A-A missiles! The Raptor has a chain with 240 rounds, I believe, and the Lightning II, which is set to release in 2011, has 320. Chain guns are too inaccurate to do any damage to ground forces, and only have 12-18 seconds of actual firetime before they need to be reloaded, so they're reserved for dogfights or enemy aerial targets only. Not all models are equipped with A-S missles, either. There are a few fighters that have been converted for bombing purposes, such as the Nighthawk, but that's been discontinued, because the Raptor outclassed it in near every test, and the Raptor is cheaper to make. I think Raptors can be used as a 1 bomb bomber, I'm not sure, but yeah, AW would be better if they could actually attack ground troops. quote skythelegend I hate that game purely because it loses even more strategy than AWDS, It had a different strategy, it didn't lose it, just because you actually had to fight. you couldn't just take control of a rocketman or bazookaman and blast your way through the game. quote Oh and about the air unit thing, did you know that theres a Battlefield 2142 mod that makes the game liek advance wars?!? Snap, really? I didn't even know there were 100.... ------------------- ^^ Visit the Bad Company Forum!^^
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dbzmaster kame...hame...HAAA! s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1678 since: Nov 2002	Jul 13, 08 at 06:43PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	AWDS required strategy in the sense that you really needed to pick your CO/skills correctly, because that's what really matters. Some COs actually require more skill to use then others too, for instance Colin requires less then most others. But I find AWDOR to be the best in the series, though. Shame that they took out all the old COs. -------------------
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Silent_Nightmare Corporal high on "N" total posts: 750 since: Jan 2008	Jul 13, 08 at 07:26PM re: Advance Wars Realism
	quote RhasiirTheArcher The Raptor has a chain with 240 rounds, I believe, and the Lightning II, which is set to release in 2011, has 320. if your talking about the F-22 raptor, your sorely mistaken buddy. F-22's carry 480 rounds for their 20mm rotary cannon. quote RhasiirTheArcher Chain guns are too inaccurate to do any damage to ground forces you have obviously never heard of the A-10 Warthog. It main weapon is a GAU-8 Avenger gattling gun, one of the most, if not, the most powerful aircraft cannon ever created. Now you said they cant do any damage to ground targets?!? The GAU-8 fires 4,200 rounds a minute and fires depleted uranium armor piercing bullets, specifically engineered to rip through tanks. This baby is accurate to a tee as well. if youve ever seen a video of her firing, then you wouldnt have said what u said about them being innacurate. it fires where the pilots puts it. To be much more specific... it can place 80% of shots within a 40 foot circle from a range of 4000 feet, if that isnt accurate for this type of weapon, i dont know what is. In short terms, this baby can take out a colum of tans no problem, as soon as those bullets rip through those tanks, they aint movin. And just incase your going to say "oh but it dosent even have enough ammo to take out that many tanks" ill follow up early and tell you that this masterpiece carries a staggering 1350 30mm rounds with her. quote RhasiirTheArcher Not all models are equipped with A-S missles, either. no, really? come on, of course everyone knows that. Though when i said what i said, i was talking about making the fighters in advance wars something like a multi-purpose fighter. quote RhasiirTheArcher I think Raptors can be used as a 1 bomb bomber The F-22 raptor uses multiple bombs made with the JDAM system, so it usually has more than a few bombs within her. She also carries A-A missiles even if tehy only arm her with 1 bomb. Though if they want a job done that a "1 bomb fighter" could do, they can now do it with 4 of those huge bombs. Since the F-22 has 2 hardpoints on each wing, and each hardpoint can theoretically carry 5000 lbs of oranance. ------------------- The cowardly... Run- The Weak... Die- The Strong... Fight- Strong, Proud, Fight with the Canadian Forces. ---Finally its close---
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