Off-topic General Discussion I - CAW CAW CAW CAW - Page 28

LB works wonders for the same reason.

Oh? You're in range of me Zilean? I'm sorry.

There's also the option of playing it safe with longer range champs like Ziggs that just farm from 15190 range and don't care what Zilean himself does.

Zilean should already have a kill on Malzahar before 6, and if not, he should be miles ahead in CS. If he is ahead, then he should already have a catalyst or at least both crystals, and therefore the survivability to survive a full Malzahar ultimate if he's at 3/4 HP or more.

If he isn't +3/4 HP, then he's never played against a Malzahar, because noone should be fighting him below that health when his ultimate is up. I don't see Zilean losing that match-up, really.

quote Inuyasha

Zilean should already have a kill on Malzahar before 6, and if not, he should be miles ahead in CS. If he is ahead, then he should already have a catalyst or at least both crystals, and therefore the survivability to survive a full Malzahar ultimate if he's at 3/4 HP or more.

If he isn't +3/4 HP, then he's never played against a Malzahar, because noone should be fighting him below that health when his ultimate is up. I don't see Zilean losing that match-up, really.

A kill already? How so? Their E and Q do practically the same damage, and have practically the same range, although one costs way less mana than the other, and IMO Malzahar has the more reliable tele-harrass. There's that rewind for a double Q, but that's the biggest threat Zil has one him.

And true, no champ should be facing down malzahar like that, but Malz is special in that he makes Zilean's ult essentially useless for that match-up.

quote Inuyasha

Malzahar can't farm a wave early like that, and if he is, he's literally blowing everything on the creeps, leaving Zilean free to harass him. Pushing the lane like that would also leave him open to jungle ganks, but that's another arguement, which Zilean wins imo =D

Well, the normal method is to toss one E, and ride that out along the entire minion wave. He won;t be running out of mana anytime soon. Meanwhile, Zilean has no such refund.

quote Inuyasha

Also, Zilean could bait out a Malzahar ult just as easy by running toward him at +50% movement speed when Malz has already taken a bomb or two.

The difference is, one bait burns away 250 (+1.3 AP) magic while also applying any E + W that Malzahar has managed to throw on him while suppressed for 2.5 seconds, and the other bait does literally nothing. Actually, why in the world would anyone try and bait a Malzahar ult? That's got to be some definition of stupid; if the Malz can estimate correctly his damage output, all baits will either not be taken or result in a kill. That suppression ult is the ultimate closing ability.

You see, because of the suppression, Zilean has to ult himself before Malzahar does, which is huge. This means (like in my case) you could even accidentally bait an ult out of him, and you get nothing but win if you do.

Nidalee is so awesome. Possibly my new favorite female champion.

quote WakeCraterWind

Ah, I hadn't thought about using his ult to trade. Then I guess I haven't played against a really good Zilean, tbh it's rare to even see one. Though let me tell you, I most definitely ward as Malzahar, I'd be an idiot not to. And I'm not at that low of a level where I think pushing the lane while laning is a good idea.


I imagine though, that Q would work wonders when properly applied.



And double bombing pre-6? IIRC, ZIlean has huge mana problems early game. It's all fine and dandy you're if harrassing him all day, but with no mana, Malzahar is going to out-farm you easy when you B, or treat you as a minion with 500 hp, because you're left with only AA.

Actually as Malzahar you be pushing hard either way. He a natural pushing (besides the actual turret.) What you need to do would be push them all the way to the turret and make sure you have enough distance to be able to return to your base while also able to stay close to your minions for dueling safely reasons lol. Aka, boots and flash lol.

quote WakeCraterWind

Oh I know that. That's why you practically need wards as Malz, or the enemy team sucks.

To be honest I personally rarely ward as malz... In fact i use this as a bait for the enemy jungler. Have your jungler prepare near by or tell him to look out. appear to overtend. enemy jungle comes in. you flash out of being out of position to being in the best position. If if a warwick he can ult while you unleash your combo without using up your ult. If not then use your ult and your jungle unleashes hell. :3