Blood Brawlers of Darkness: Thread LXX - Armada's YL is too good. ~Recruiting~

TL is a pretty bad character :L

tho in seriousness I think Lucario beats him 55:45

quote AnimalXing

Yes but Jash is the best toon link. Just because Trela is the 2nd best (or whatever the lucarios consider him) doesn't mean he should be losing to the best player of another character. Trela knows the TL matchup COMPLETELY 100% from playing jerm and shadow so much. We can safely assume that no other lucarios are going to know this matchup as well as trela. And Jash, what good lucarios does he have to play consistently? The closest one is Irji and they don't even live in the same state. They only play at regionals like that match I pulled up. Also it is possible that trela is a slightly better player than jash, who knows...either way, having SO much TL experience is a huge factor, and trela might even be better than jash altogether. The kid is too good.

also I know Irji isn't the best lucario. But it's the only match of TL vs lucario that I knew of on youtube that was recent, and close. I didn't pull up trela vs jerm because jerm admits he doesn't know that matchup, whereas of course Trela knows it to an infinite extent.

how can Jerm not know the matchup when he plays trela so much? >.>

Either way I don't like using top player matches to determine ratios. Trela is prolly the better player since he places so well in nationals. I base my argument in experience

quote AnimalXing

But...they still do today...XD

watch any matches. Trela vs mikehaze...junebug vs boss...anything, even if you look at matches from just a few months ago they're still rolling like crazy because people do not know how to punish characters with fast rolls, surprisingly. The fact that Jerm tried to punish seagull's rolling at pound 5 and usmashed his shield and was killed supports the notion that even top players use the wrong moves to punish rolls and are too slow when punishing these fast rolls.

It's not about how much you use your roll. it's how you use it. It's also very matchup dependent. Almost all top lucarios use it safely. they don't just mindlessly roll in every time. however yes, it's always a viable mix up. I roll in occaisionally. and I roll away tons when I need space since rolling away is safe in almost any matchup.

quote AnimalXing

His grab range is terrible. It's not like he's going to shieldgrab zair...plus lucario has his own projectile, he's not always trying to pressure TL like Marth or Kirby. TL has a better range of punish moves after dash powershielding AS then vice-versa with random projectiles. Which brings me to, TLs don't throw projectiles at these bizarre times like you think they do. If Lucario is dashing towards TL then TL isn't going to drift TOWARDS him and throw something or zair. He's going to drift away and do something safer like zair or QD, which lucario can't punish with his limited OOS range. What's the fastest long range thing he can do OOS, ftilt? even then you'd have to do TWO things for that to work: make the shield a PS, and THEN you have to PSC for it to come out fast enough. I doubt this would happen.

Lucario has OOS options not named grab. his Jab comes out as fast as his grab and has amazing range for a jab. he could also Ftilt which is fast and has range. He could also SH Fair him. Dash attack is frame 6 also. Or Lucario doesn't have to punish Zair and just continue to close space and get in TLs face where he's at an advantage.

Just because Lucario has Aurasphere doesn't mean he has to use it and let Tink punish it... I generally charge it full or near full and save it to try to punish his landing or finish a juggle. baby Aurasphere is pretty useless and Luc shouldn't throw it much.

If tink isn't "throwing random projectiles" AKA zoning, then he's letting lucario get in for free basically. and yeah TL can retreat and he's safe, but like I said lucario is still closing distance since lucario's ground speed > TL air speed and eventually if he keeps retreating Tink will run out of stage.

and it isn't that hard to PS then PSC when you're PSing off a read. but SH fair would be better than Ftilt probably. Ftilt is a zoning move. But it would be best to just PS it then continue dashing in to close space, Luc can sometimes PS > Dash > punish even.

quote AnimalXing

Bombs..? I don't think bombs are as important in this matchup as in say, the MK matchup...bombs are as needed as much as normal in this matchup. What I think is really important is the boomerang, it zones and can break grabs since lucarios like to pummel. It could potentially protect TL in the air while pulling out other projectiles or zair. Bombs explode on large AS, which moves fast compared to TL's projectiles. If Tl throws a bomb and lucario throws large AS, not only do I get a bomb in my face but also a huge blue ball of death. x_x

Bombs always cancel out any Aurasphere regardless of charge or aura. and I was just speaking of my experience. Bombs were the most effective projectile for keeping me out.

quote animalXing

whereas if I full hop to dodge it and boomerang, it puts another hitbox out there while allowing me to further threaten my opponent with a bomb in hand. So basically bombs are useful, but more for mindgames then for projectile pressure. At least that's what I believe. Like I said before regarding Lucario's punish range OOS, it's quite limited and it is possible to follow up if you space the zair. You don't have to zair right in front of him at mid %s to higher %s if you want to follow up with nair or another zair. Plus, if your zair game is as good as Omega's, you don't even need to follow up with other moves. Just change the height at which you zair, and your opponent will get frustrated and confused. I did this to an Ike player in tourney. I must've zaired him like 30 times lol. Zair works offstage too, watch hyro's combo video to see how effective zair is against lucario when he's in the air even NEAR the edge of the stage. it wrecks him. Plus zair goes right through small AS.

Lucario isn't going to be tossing AS like a toy. and I'm talking about bomb mixups in regard to bombs. not just lolthrowing them.

Tink can't be predicatble with Zair BTW. Lucario can just roll behind and punish. so you have to be careful with it.

Zair has no reason to wreck lucario offstage, he has several ways to deal with it. I can see it hitting him and all, but unless he has some sort of guranteed follow up or it gimps the shit out of him (it doesn't) then boo hoo I took minimal damage. unless of course the lucario is bad in which case he can get raped off stage uber hard.

Killing lucario is Toon Link's biggest weakness in the matchup. If Lucario isn't stupid TL will have a very hard time.

and range is iffy. yeah completely horrizontally he wins but at other angles luc wins. ESPECIALLY at diagonals where tink can't cover himself.

Just reply to my last megalong post on like page 5 lol.

Lucario can get TLs face where he has an advantage easily. Now tink isn't totally free inside but Tink's big issue is aura. he can't kill well if lucario is playing safe. Also if Tink dies first he's in deep shit because now Lucario can be even more passive and difficult to kill.

why on earth would a lucario roll if they thought you were going to upsmash? just shield it and punish with grab.

and only really bad lucarios roll from fear. players who go even with me will consistantly punish it if it's abused.

I've been playing mahvel baby

Maybe....

scrub

tell me what is was anyways :D

lol...

I'm like 6th too

I saw in tourney results that Art got last :/

but its k. you can only improve.

I did really good my first tourney then got worse '>.>

I is bored too

Because I've lived in Germany and it sounds cool

I lived in germany. I was in germany when you first played me like two years ago. and no I don't know that band :L

BTW MTT is coming to Colorado in a month. Gonna upload the matches.

get hype

lemme join so we can do a 3 man/woman/furry rotation : 3