UEFA Euro 2012: Quarter Final England vs Italy - Page 44

quote Yogurt

First off, my argument is based off many other things, and it's funny, cos my argument is based off of my opinions and expectations which you're trying to say are wrong which is dumb in itself.

No, you're fully entitled to feel proud.

I just don't see why, and you've failed to explain why. That's fine, you have no obligation to, but since you decided to try and explain why I challenged it.To which you then questioned my opinion of it, I've defended it. And here we are.

I've said the rankings are shite, I'm using them to highlight how we're meant to be the top team in our group, hence the expectation to get out of it.

Again, what are you proud of; England achieving what you expeted of them, or surpassing that expectation?

quote Yogurt

The sole fact you are pointing out that we did poor against below-average teams shows why those rankings aren't strong support, France, Italy or Portugal would not have played poor.

So you're proud of us playing poorly against below-average teams?

FWIW, I'm proud of our defence, I am not proud of our attack or the eventual system or the way certain players continued to start no matter how badly the played.


Also, if Rooney doesn't fit in with the system (and with this system he doesn't) he shouldn't start, hasn't given anywhere a good enough reason to deserve first name on the team sheet privileges.

quote Yogurt

I like how you point out one thing as support for your argument (rankings) and then back-track and say they "blow" or how were are "meant" to see it.

I've criticised them because I don't believe we are the 4th best team in the Euros personally. Many people, however, do. Hence why the expectations for England were to at least make the quarter finals.

quote

And you were saying I don't prove why when you use unreliable evidence anyway. E.g. stating we are a top 4 European side but then saying they blow (when we're not as good as Italy or France or Portugal) which then makes your own point erroneous.

You're struggling to differentiate between my opinion and facts, which I've been clear to seperate by stating my own personal view of the rankings.

Factually, we are a top 4 European side, or at least up until today we were given the rankings are the only way you can really determine as such until tournaments like these go someway to correcting that.

quote

YOUR expectations (I feel) should be from what YOU think, not what a bunch of ignoramus' think with some ranking that doesn't even reflect the quality of the teams correctly. That is why they are yours and not theirs.

But it's the best source at this moment in time used to rank teams. Unless you can provide a superior one, it's the one which best dictates a teams place in the footballing world. It can still be useless (which it is), but it's the best there is.

quote

I am proud of England reaching the QFs, I didn't expect anything, really, although I think QF's is where our quality is at. I knew I didn't expect to win, reach the final or even the semi's although it would've been nice.

Right, so ignore everythin else and answer me this.

Would you have been disappointed if we went out in the group stages?

Because, frankly, if we did it'd have been a *bleep*ing travesty not qualifying from that group, hene why I can't be proud of reaching the QF's when anything less would have been way below par.

And you did it again... You tried to pick apart my argument for using 'what if's' but you go and do it yourself, actually you did it before, as well...

I would've been disappointed that we went out in the group stages, yes. That supports what I've been saying, though.. We're a QF quality team, GS-QF-SF, there's a clear line between the strength of the competition.

D I O S Another what if, how come you guys can use them in your replies, but I can't?

I am proud that we made it that far, I would've been even more proud if the team played better and we enjoyed a back and fourth match with Italy, missing chances and only losing by a small margin (which we still kinda did, as it was on penalties, despite being dominated). Just like the Chelsea example (again, which is why I used it first of all) they are proud they won, would they be more proud if they dominated teams instead, probably, but they won it. Even if they only beat Napoli and lost to Benfica (which I stated before) they would still be proud right, 3-1 down to win 5-4, you would be proud of that, despite being disappointed you lost to Benfica. When it looked like Chelsea were down and out they got further than expectations, what's not to be proud of?

It's pretty much common sense that if I am proud, my expectations were met or exceeded, is it not?

Or are you trying to tell me throughout all of this, you thought my expectations weren't met or exceeded, but I was proud? Either way, it's hilarious, and yes, we finally got ... there.

quote Yogurt

It's pretty much common sense if I am proud, my expectations were met or exceeded, is it not?

Or are you trying to tell me throughout all of this, you thought my expectations weren't met or exceeded, but I was proud? Either way, it's hilarious, and yes, we finally got ... there.

No, I genuinely thought you were proud just that England got out of the group. As if you didn't expect them to. Given I only seem to attribute feeling proud to somebody surpassing what's expected of them.

quote arsenal4thetitle

hello there does anyone know the song that played at the end of the bbc coverage. As been trying to remember it from the pub

In The End. Some sort of queer remix.

http://www.rocksins.com/videos/bbc-use-acoustic-linkin-park-in-the-end-cover-on-englands-euro-2012-exit-montage/

Think this is it.

quote Yogurt

Then why would you challenge what I said? As you would understand why I was proud and not try and challenge it, what the hell, that doesn't make sense...

arsenal4thetitle In The End (Linkin Park cover).

As I said above. I don't tend to attribute feeling proud with merely doing what is expected, at least not when the performance is a million miles away from the 'heroic' terms Hodgson has since used to describe it. Since you said you felt proud, it seemed as if you thought England surpassed expectations.

quote Yogurt

D I O S Another what if, how come you guys can use them in your replies, but I can't?

a) Didn't say you couldn't.
b) Didn't at all say what if.

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I am proud that we made it that far, I would've been even more proud if the team played better and we enjoyed a back and fourth match with Italy, missing chances and only losing by a small margin (which we still kinda did, as it was on penalties, despite being dominated). Just like the Chelsea example (again, which is why I used it first of all) they are proud they won, would they be more proud if they dominated teams instead, probably, but they won it. Even if they only beat Napoli and lost to Benfica (which I stated before) they would still be proud right, 3-1 down to win 5-4, you would be proud of that, despite being disappointed you lost to Benfica. When it looked like Chelsea were down and out they got further than expectations, what's not to be proud of?

But then you can be proud of a 5-0 loss if your keeper played well. Sure I'm proud of a tiny little thing, but in the wider picture I'm incredibly disappointed, massively outweighing your pride. Which I imagine is how Chelsea fans would feel, a small amount of pride, but mostly and overwhelmingly disappointed to have lost to Benfica.

Frankly, this argument is based on your definition of pride, which imo, is both unemotional and incredibly easy to attain.