quote smash fanatic
10/10 for aran and the rest of the characters in this game because i boss abuse them to max level
Lol!
quote molater
quote smash fanatic
quoteI feel the need to try to explain some things that haven't been explicitly said (but definitely hinted at).
Let's say Ilyana dies in Part 1 (accidentally or not, it doesn't matter). Now, because of this, we cannot transfer items from the DB to the GM. Because of this, the GM's efficiency takes a hit because of a lack of funds. Alternatively, if Leo died in Part 1, it would have little to no effect on the GM's efficiency (except maybe Part 3 Chapter 7). It's not so much "What would happen if Unit X wasn't even programmed into the game?," it's more "How would efficiency be altered if Unit X is not available to us?"
Well, if the player decided to not use Ilyana, he wouldn't have this problem of her dying on him, because he wouldn't even field her anyway. And if he was using Ilyana, chances are he'd restart if she did die on him, or be more careful with her in general.
If anything, this argument you made is in favor of NOT using Ilyana, because if you do so she has no chance of dying on you, while using Ilyana requires the player to be a lot more careful.
And you should be rating units more along the lines of "How would efficiency be altered if unit X is not fielded?" rather than "not available". If the player doesn't use a unit, he's going to bench him/her, not kill it dead (well, sans FEDS since multiple gaiden chapters requires you to have X or fewer PCs available). Therefore, the player not using Ilyana isn't going to kill her off, he's going to bench her, which means he still gets to transfer items over to the GMs.
quoteKnowing this, I'll relate it back to the Pelleas base conversation Smash mentioned earlier. This situation is different than that because no specific character has to be alive in order to get the Brave Sword (besides the lord). Pelleas is not a playable character yet, so he essentially "doesn't exist" and you literally can't touch him unless you decided not to read the base conversation.
Okay so let me bring up another example that is the same thing with one minor detail changed. I'll use Jill and the brave axe convo in 3-6. It requires you to not kill Jill dead. Should we credit Jill for getting us the brave axe when we would've gotten it whether we use Jill or not?
quoteSimilarly, with the Rafiel and the Seraph Robe, we don't have any control over whether or not we receive the item. It's his given equipment, just like Laura starts with a Heal staff or Eddie starts with an Iron Sword and Vulnerary. However, with Ilyana we have the option to take advantage of her situation and choose the items we want to transfer. Whether you like it or not, this increases her helpfulness compared to the rest of the team even though it doesn't matter if we field her or not.
The point is that it's a storyline event.
When rating units (or comparing units since it's basically the same thing; when you assign units a score on a scale of 1-10, they should be relative to other units in the game anyway), you have to think of it like this. Let's say you want to decide who is better between Leo or Ilyana. You want to use the one who will benefit your team the most in a given playthrough and you will bench the other.
If you use Leo, you get whatever he does in DB maps and part 4 and whatever. Meanwhile Ilyana sits on the bench in the DB, then moves to the GMs at the end of part 1 to sit on their bench, transferring items on the way.
If you use Ilyana, you get whatever she does in DB maps, then she moves to the GMs at the end of part 1, transferring items on the way, then does whatever in part 3 and part 4. Meanwhile Leo isits on the bench for the whole game.
Picking either Leo or Ilyana has one similarity; Ilyana transferring items. Since both teams have it, it isn't unique to one of them and should be disregarded. You instead concentrate on what Leo can do that Ilyana can't do (stuff in 3-6, etc.) and likewise what Ilyana can do that Leo can't do.
This is akin to a topic I had on serenesforest awhile back.
http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16775
In all honesty, I never had the intent of debating, merely interpreting what other members had already said in a different fashion. It seems I did little, so I'll just leave it at that.
Don't feel bad Molator, I thought what you had to say was very relevant and was concise. Couldn't have said it better myself!
I was trying to follow everyone's debate about this, but there is just too much reading to do! So I'm just going to use this, which was posted by Smash and go from there:
quote smash fanatic
oh look, there's someone from serenesforest here.
quoteThe only impact Ilyana ever has on the GM is the transferation of Adept and a Speedwings. The Adept scroll isn't heavily needed. You can just give it to Nephenee or Ulki. But the Speedwings is obvious. The second one you get at 2-3 obviously goes to GAAR. The first one is very likely to end with Titania, as she is able to double enemies not-SMs & Warriors with 23 AS. But I'm still not sure whether this should be credited or not. Ilyana's whole transfering items to the GMs isn't plot-induced, only the part where Ilyana has to leave the DB.
Why the heck are we transferring the speedwings over when that requires fielding her in 1-E? If Aran as you imply is useless there, I sure as hell am not bringing Ilyana along, who is worse in every way imaginable.
quoteBut like some have said, we are the ones picking the items. That's being of some use there, even if you aren't having her see combat. Think of it, do we honestly have the dragons at 4-E-5 enter any combat, at all? Or even having to use any other commans such as moving and "Shift"? They just transform and stand still to be use for others because of their special stat-boosting skills.
The dragons have to actually be fielded, and since you don't have enough unit slots to go to everyone, you have to make an active decision as to who to drop. And why do you use the dragons? because they are better than several of your other choices (lolsanaki, lolsothe, lolkurth).
First part: There are other things Illyana can transfer too! There are gems (the GMs desparately need money) and some other stuff, purely for the monetary value. There's no need to transfer scrolls. The Crap Brigade need them way more!
Second part: Kurthnaga is very nice. I think you mean lolena. Anyway, I'm not sure I understand the arguement here. Can you re-explain it?
quote tomato13187
and the other quarter point for her items.
NO THAT'S WRONG YOU CAN'T DO THAT SHE COMES WITH THAT STUFF IT DOESN'T COUNT!!!1!!!!!!11 
Anyway, Aran:
As Smash said, he's underrated. For starters, he has a good affinity. Thunder works well, and thanks to his very high defense growth, he is very durable.
He excels in attack, defense and skill. Where he falls short is in speed. Since he caps attack, defense and skill though, if you're willing to throw a bit of BEXP his way, this isn't such a problem.
His resistance is shocking, but as stated with Nolan, there aren't that many magic users around anyway.
He really is a useful and necessary wall that you need for Crap Brigade chapters. You always need to play on the defensive and make walls. He is perfect for this. Especially in that chapter during part three where it is raining, and the other one where it is night time and there are all those laguz.
Long story short: yes his speed sucks, but so does Leonardo's speed, Micaiah's speed and a whole lot of units! The difference: he can actually take some hits!
As smash said, relative to the team he is great! Also he joins reasonably early. Plus Fiona sucks so who else is going to use those boring old lances collecting dust?
I'm tied between a 7.5 and an 8 for Aran, but I think I can settle on an 8.
Now, for Meg...
SHE SUCKS.But, she is some use in like one chapter. And she has a tiny small speckle of potential and use. So I'll give her a 1.
quote smash fanatic
7.5
Laura is similar to Micaiah. Crap bases, crap caps. Great growths but levels way too slowly to make use of them. A low input, decent output unit. She doesn't even need to support anyone; not like anyone not named Aran would bother with her lolwind anyway.
She's also one of those units who looked really good on paper, but once I played the game I realized that wasn't the case. As said before, 70% mag/skl/spd growth is just wtf. But then 5 base spd and 2 base def just cripple her in terms of combat, and lollable caps don't help. Every single enemy in the DB chapters one rounds her, and unless you aggressively level her it remains that way in part 4.
Thankfully, she has utility on her side. She's the DB's only staff user, which means she's the only healer they have for part 1. Micaiah doesn't quite count, at least until part 3, and even then the DB have at least two fronts, so both Micaiah and Laura are playing healbot. Plus Micaiah can't heal without physics in 3-13, so it's up to Laura to keep the team healthy for that chapter.
Laura's usefulness dwindles by part 4 when other staff users start popping up, although because we have three teams to fill, she can find something to do. But by 4-E she's obsolete because Micaiah is forced, and nearly every other staff user will outclass her unless you seriously babied her. However, her usefulness in DB chapters makes her worth using. Just not training.
tl;dr
lol Staff user (i.e. it's impossible to make her into a feasible combat unit)
Yeah, she does manage to have some very nice stats (it's good to see a unit in the dawn brigade with SPEED for one (and usually healers have low speed - see Rhys)).
Yeah, as a utility she is amazing.
Now let's not get ahold of ourselves! Rex Aura goes to Micaiah, leaving Nosferatu for Laura.
If you make her fight any dragons in Part 3 endgame, she's great! They are too slow to double, so if you just let them attack her, she will get hit, then absorb heaps of HP! (She doubles so very feasible). (Red dragons have low RES so lots of HP gains, White Dragons don't do a lot due to high RES, but she doesn't get much HP back either due to their high RES, so it actually works out better to make her fight red dragons.)
In fact, thanks to her not getting doubled due to nice speed (despite low cap) Nosferatu really can help her out. Plus it's still always good to have a healer around!
I give her an 8.5.
Also she can use other staffs! Like sleep. So there is some small scope there aside from healing all the time.
Edit: I just spent half an hour doing the above! This stuff really drains your time!
