Character Ratings - Page 10

6. Staves alone just isn't something I can justify having any higher.

quote smash fanatic

10/10 for aran and the rest of the characters in this game because i boss abuse them to max level

Lol!

quote molater

quote smash fanatic

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I feel the need to try to explain some things that haven't been explicitly said (but definitely hinted at).

Let's say Ilyana dies in Part 1 (accidentally or not, it doesn't matter). Now, because of this, we cannot transfer items from the DB to the GM. Because of this, the GM's efficiency takes a hit because of a lack of funds. Alternatively, if Leo died in Part 1, it would have little to no effect on the GM's efficiency (except maybe Part 3 Chapter 7). It's not so much "What would happen if Unit X wasn't even programmed into the game?," it's more "How would efficiency be altered if Unit X is not available to us?"

Well, if the player decided to not use Ilyana, he wouldn't have this problem of her dying on him, because he wouldn't even field her anyway. And if he was using Ilyana, chances are he'd restart if she did die on him, or be more careful with her in general.

If anything, this argument you made is in favor of NOT using Ilyana, because if you do so she has no chance of dying on you, while using Ilyana requires the player to be a lot more careful.

And you should be rating units more along the lines of "How would efficiency be altered if unit X is not fielded?" rather than "not available". If the player doesn't use a unit, he's going to bench him/her, not kill it dead (well, sans FEDS since multiple gaiden chapters requires you to have X or fewer PCs available). Therefore, the player not using Ilyana isn't going to kill her off, he's going to bench her, which means he still gets to transfer items over to the GMs.

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Knowing this, I'll relate it back to the Pelleas base conversation Smash mentioned earlier. This situation is different than that because no specific character has to be alive in order to get the Brave Sword (besides the lord). Pelleas is not a playable character yet, so he essentially "doesn't exist" and you literally can't touch him unless you decided not to read the base conversation.

Okay so let me bring up another example that is the same thing with one minor detail changed. I'll use Jill and the brave axe convo in 3-6. It requires you to not kill Jill dead. Should we credit Jill for getting us the brave axe when we would've gotten it whether we use Jill or not?

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Similarly, with the Rafiel and the Seraph Robe, we don't have any control over whether or not we receive the item. It's his given equipment, just like Laura starts with a Heal staff or Eddie starts with an Iron Sword and Vulnerary. However, with Ilyana we have the option to take advantage of her situation and choose the items we want to transfer. Whether you like it or not, this increases her helpfulness compared to the rest of the team even though it doesn't matter if we field her or not.

The point is that it's a storyline event.

When rating units (or comparing units since it's basically the same thing; when you assign units a score on a scale of 1-10, they should be relative to other units in the game anyway), you have to think of it like this. Let's say you want to decide who is better between Leo or Ilyana. You want to use the one who will benefit your team the most in a given playthrough and you will bench the other.

If you use Leo, you get whatever he does in DB maps and part 4 and whatever. Meanwhile Ilyana sits on the bench in the DB, then moves to the GMs at the end of part 1 to sit on their bench, transferring items on the way.

If you use Ilyana, you get whatever she does in DB maps, then she moves to the GMs at the end of part 1, transferring items on the way, then does whatever in part 3 and part 4. Meanwhile Leo isits on the bench for the whole game.

Picking either Leo or Ilyana has one similarity; Ilyana transferring items. Since both teams have it, it isn't unique to one of them and should be disregarded. You instead concentrate on what Leo can do that Ilyana can't do (stuff in 3-6, etc.) and likewise what Ilyana can do that Leo can't do.

This is akin to a topic I had on serenesforest awhile back.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16775

In all honesty, I never had the intent of debating, merely interpreting what other members had already said in a different fashion. It seems I did little, so I'll just leave it at that.

Don't feel bad Molator, I thought what you had to say was very relevant and was concise. Couldn't have said it better myself!

I was trying to follow everyone's debate about this, but there is just too much reading to do! So I'm just going to use this, which was posted by Smash and go from there:

quote smash fanatic

oh look, there's someone from serenesforest here.

quote

The only impact Ilyana ever has on the GM is the transferation of Adept and a Speedwings. The Adept scroll isn't heavily needed. You can just give it to Nephenee or Ulki. But the Speedwings is obvious. The second one you get at 2-3 obviously goes to GAAR. The first one is very likely to end with Titania, as she is able to double enemies not-SMs & Warriors with 23 AS. But I'm still not sure whether this should be credited or not. Ilyana's whole transfering items to the GMs isn't plot-induced, only the part where Ilyana has to leave the DB.

Why the heck are we transferring the speedwings over when that requires fielding her in 1-E? If Aran as you imply is useless there, I sure as hell am not bringing Ilyana along, who is worse in every way imaginable.

quote

But like some have said, we are the ones picking the items. That's being of some use there, even if you aren't having her see combat. Think of it, do we honestly have the dragons at 4-E-5 enter any combat, at all? Or even having to use any other commans such as moving and "Shift"? They just transform and stand still to be use for others because of their special stat-boosting skills.

The dragons have to actually be fielded, and since you don't have enough unit slots to go to everyone, you have to make an active decision as to who to drop. And why do you use the dragons? because they are better than several of your other choices (lolsanaki, lolsothe, lolkurth).

First part: There are other things Illyana can transfer too! There are gems (the GMs desparately need money) and some other stuff, purely for the monetary value. There's no need to transfer scrolls. The Crap Brigade need them way more!

Second part: Kurthnaga is very nice. I think you mean lolena. Anyway, I'm not sure I understand the arguement here. Can you re-explain it?

quote tomato13187

and the other quarter point for her items.

NO THAT'S WRONG YOU CAN'T DO THAT SHE COMES WITH THAT STUFF IT DOESN'T COUNT!!!1!!!!!!11

Anyway, Aran:

As Smash said, he's underrated. For starters, he has a good affinity. Thunder works well, and thanks to his very high defense growth, he is very durable.

He excels in attack, defense and skill. Where he falls short is in speed. Since he caps attack, defense and skill though, if you're willing to throw a bit of BEXP his way, this isn't such a problem.

His resistance is shocking, but as stated with Nolan, there aren't that many magic users around anyway.

He really is a useful and necessary wall that you need for Crap Brigade chapters. You always need to play on the defensive and make walls. He is perfect for this. Especially in that chapter during part three where it is raining, and the other one where it is night time and there are all those laguz.

Long story short: yes his speed sucks, but so does Leonardo's speed, Micaiah's speed and a whole lot of units! The difference: he can actually take some hits!

As smash said, relative to the team he is great! Also he joins reasonably early. Plus Fiona sucks so who else is going to use those boring old lances collecting dust?

I'm tied between a 7.5 and an 8 for Aran, but I think I can settle on an 8.

Now, for Meg...

SHE SUCKS.

But, she is some use in like one chapter. And she has a tiny small speckle of potential and use. So I'll give her a 1.

quote smash fanatic

7.5

Laura is similar to Micaiah. Crap bases, crap caps. Great growths but levels way too slowly to make use of them. A low input, decent output unit. She doesn't even need to support anyone; not like anyone not named Aran would bother with her lolwind anyway.

She's also one of those units who looked really good on paper, but once I played the game I realized that wasn't the case. As said before, 70% mag/skl/spd growth is just wtf. But then 5 base spd and 2 base def just cripple her in terms of combat, and lollable caps don't help. Every single enemy in the DB chapters one rounds her, and unless you aggressively level her it remains that way in part 4.

Thankfully, she has utility on her side. She's the DB's only staff user, which means she's the only healer they have for part 1. Micaiah doesn't quite count, at least until part 3, and even then the DB have at least two fronts, so both Micaiah and Laura are playing healbot. Plus Micaiah can't heal without physics in 3-13, so it's up to Laura to keep the team healthy for that chapter.

Laura's usefulness dwindles by part 4 when other staff users start popping up, although because we have three teams to fill, she can find something to do. But by 4-E she's obsolete because Micaiah is forced, and nearly every other staff user will outclass her unless you seriously babied her. However, her usefulness in DB chapters makes her worth using. Just not training.

tl;dr

lol Staff user (i.e. it's impossible to make her into a feasible combat unit)

Yeah, she does manage to have some very nice stats (it's good to see a unit in the dawn brigade with SPEED for one (and usually healers have low speed - see Rhys)).

Yeah, as a utility she is amazing.

Now let's not get ahold of ourselves! Rex Aura goes to Micaiah, leaving Nosferatu for Laura.

If you make her fight any dragons in Part 3 endgame, she's great! They are too slow to double, so if you just let them attack her, she will get hit, then absorb heaps of HP! (She doubles so very feasible). (Red dragons have low RES so lots of HP gains, White Dragons don't do a lot due to high RES, but she doesn't get much HP back either due to their high RES, so it actually works out better to make her fight red dragons.)

In fact, thanks to her not getting doubled due to nice speed (despite low cap) Nosferatu really can help her out. Plus it's still always good to have a healer around!

I give her an 8.5.

Also she can use other staffs! Like sleep. So there is some small scope there aside from healing all the time.

Edit: I just spent half an hour doing the above! This stuff really drains your time!

Hey guys...

quote Dragon

Also, I'd like everyone to only vote on the current character, I really don't want to keep going back to previous ones. Just keep it in mind for the future.

quote Simon the Nekonin

Kurthnaga is very nice. I think you mean lolena. Anyway, I'm not sure I understand the arguement here. Can you re-explain it?

A "very nice" character that has hitting issues and that affords us +5 Def/Res when we don't even need it. Ena is better than him because she actually helps us clear 4-E-5 faster by letting Caineghis/Giffca/Brave axe!Boyd/Nolan 1RKO Auras along with Gareth and Nasir's help. Kurth needs to be fed ten million kills, just to become usable in the first place near the end of the game.

Anyhow, much like Micaiah, I think Laura deserves at least a 6.

You might ask yourself why give her a six when we have broken healing items, such as Vulneraries, that heal slightly more than her in the first place. Well, there's the fact that you can save a Player Phase for one of your characters, instead of having them burn a Vulnerary when they could be taking out, or weakening an enemy (these kind of instances happen alot at 1-3, 4 & 5). And while Laura doesn't have enough durability to survive a round from enemies that aren't Mages, you have remind to yourself, that isn't part of her utility. And as a healer, she should always, at any cost, stay out of danger. She's already being useful to you by healing. I mean, the DBs aren't the GMs. So that means they need to be healed more often. If Laura gets this score because of being very frail, then that means Rhys & Mist could easily end up lower because of how unnecessary, literally, unnecessary healing becomes in the GM chapters.

Then comes Part 3, and we know that you are going to need at least one healer. We have Micaiah, yes. But who ever said you can't have two healers? While Micaiah is healing someone, Laura can heal another person. It just helps alot that her base level staff rank is a C, which is enough to use a Physic staff.

Also, even though this is irrelevant to our current character. I would like to refute what I said about Aran, if only because these ratings are based on NM, where we can actually make our ways with training around four characters properly at the DB. While in HM, if you want to train a third, you have to go out of your way to train Nolan and Jill.

quote soul1112

A "very nice" character that has hitting issues and that affords us +5 Def/Res when we don't even need it.

Seriously? You have characters that can die left, right and centre, and you don't want to take advantage of some defenses?

quote soul1112

that heal slightly more than her in the first place.

Heal heals 10 HP + magic. Herb just does 10 HP.

If heal doesn't suffice, use mend. There's plenty of scope with staves, and you almost never heal someone and they don't end up with full health.

For staff users in Fire Emblem (remake on DS) there seems to be problems with being able to heal people efficiently, but in other Fire Emblems theres no debate that healing items can compare to a healer.

Even if the herb has 10 uses, a staff can be used four times as much, and heal a lot more too.

quote smash fanatic

Also, micaiah can't even heal in 3-13 unless she uses physic, so Laura covers a lot of your healing there.

Well if they run away a little bit she can help...

quote soul1112

It just helps alot that her base level staff rank is a C, which is enough to use a Physic staff.

Mend + Discipline + use five times = C rank if you are on D anyway.

Now I know I haven't played this game in a while but I honestly don't remember Laura turning into Kurth.