re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3 - Page 11 - Super Smash Bros. Brawl

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Anton Herrera Let the spirits guide you Hooked on Neo total posts: 4374 since: Aug 2005	Apr 20, 09 at 2:45am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	Log in to remove this sponsored message quote pokewifidude quote SonicFire inb4MK is broken :3 No MK shouldn't be banned. He's not unbeatable. There are much gayer characters on most stages than MK. He's not the worst match-up for most, if not all of the roster. Good Snakes > Good MKs. His seemingly lag-less moves aren't so bad unless you're using some horrible character like Lucas or Jiggz. And so on. D: Lucas is not a horrible character - he is way better than heaps, esp. DIDDY! But Lucas is a bad character. -------------------
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Cloud9157 Resident Neo total posts: 2889 since: Jul 2008	Apr 20, 09 at 2:46am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	quote Veggi Do you know how long DK lives with good DI? Regardless of the DI, he dies earlier. It's not like your heavy opponent can't DI either. If you put them next to eachother, he still dies a lot earlier. Hence, the con. But it is not a Con. I know this is the universal answer, but it all leads back to gimping. DK Can launch MK with a Giant Punch, but if DI holds out, MK is back. MK doesn't need to kill via launching Veggi. He gimps more than he launches I would say. quote Veggi It's a disadvantage and in tourneys MK does not gimp more often then he kills. That's extremely far off from the truth. So why is MK's gimping ability a reason why he should be banned? quote Veggi Lasers and chaingrab are two major factors, but not the only ones. It doesn't need explaining, having two advantages isn't a con. What else does Falco have besides killing power? quote Veggi That's what I was getting at, he has a small move pool to choose from. But that is ALL HE NEEDS to win. How can it be a Con when the few moves he uses are better than most of the other casts moves?
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Tidus Strife N'Somniac since: Jul 2004	Apr 20, 09 at 2:46am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	Hey Shi, an 11 year old beat Diem with Pit, anything can happen -------------------
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Power of Slash Well then =o Neolithic total posts: 6784 since: Mar 2002	Apr 20, 09 at 2:48am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	Let's just be safe and use an experimental period with MK banned. see how far metagames move then. ------------------- Gonna lurk mmmm... you can find me if you really need me. Lol
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Elliot Gale Ride! Neolife since: Apr 2002	Apr 20, 09 at 2:50am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	quote Power of Slash Let's just be safe and use an experimental period with MK banned. Asinine idea, really. You either do it or you don't, don't piss people off for no reason for a baseless amount of time. This isn't like Pokémon, where you can leave the metagame untouched while testing ubers for OU and vice-versa. ------------------- Check out Cardfight!! Vanguard! We are... the Little Busters!.
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Veggi Look out. I'll tear your insides out. Still Seekin' total posts: 3579 since: Jan 2009	Apr 20, 09 at 2:50am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	quote Tidus Strife I honestly don't recall a time when people thought MK went 60-40 against Snake. I remember the opposite. MK can kill off the top. USmash, UTilt, Shuttle Loop, UAir, Glide Attack, and Tornado all do it. Snake does have bad matchups. Go watch Azen's D3 play Ally at Cat 4. DSmash kills, Shuttle Loop kills, Glide Attack kills, NAir Kills, FAir can kill, FSmash kills... how do you define lack of kill moves? he racks damage well enough to save DSmash for kills under 120 Technically speaking, Samus can also KO off the top, however she's so horrible at it that it's not mentioned. The only moves you listed that could realistically kill off the top are MK's shuttle loop at a high position at a high percentage. Also, his glide attack, which is extremely telegraphed. Fsmash is as slow as Donkey Kong's forward smash and it has much less power and range. Nair and fair have to wait until too high of a percentage to be a good killer.
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Shisui Neo or Bust total posts: 7009 since: Mar 2008	Apr 20, 09 at 2:51am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	quote WiseLugia A 4 character metagame is better than a 1 character metagame. quote WiseLugia I was talking to Shi. I'd rather see Snake, G&W, Falco, D3, plus some others like Pika, etc. rather than just MK and the few other top tiers that occasionally show up (and lose). there are what 32/34 characters in brawl? going to 1->4 doesn't really make it worth it and that much better of a game. with a smaller roster like 20 i could see ur point. quote Power of Slash I'm going to have to disagree with this. with MK gone not only will we have chracter variety, but on top of that character variety we get matchup knowledge. Matchup knowledge improves characters metagames as already said earlier on in this document. It'd be a huge boon in the fountain of knowledge, and as more characters continue to get developed... well you know where I'm going I'm horrible at fully explaining my thoughts. somebody continue this. i fully understand ur point and was actually waiting for someone to mention something about this. its already estabilished that brawl isn't too deep of a game with NUMERUOS problems that make match ups a nightmare that doesn't even include meta. on top of that character vareity u mentioned isn't much of a variety of 4-6(inlcoded 2 more just to make it sound better for those who want to get number specific) out of 32/34 characters. how many characters do u kno where actualy stopped from going higher in the tier list because of metaknight? i think it was like marth and 2 others that were pretty high to begin with. -------------------
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stabbedbyahippie nigg@s in da club Relentless total posts: 9370 since: Aug 2007	Apr 20, 09 at 2:54am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	I'm gonna go off on a limb and compare this to Melee. In Melee tournaments, Falco, Fox, Marth, Falcon, Peach, Jigglypuff and Sheik are all viable and counter each other along with some lesser characters like Doc and Samus who can hold their own. In Brawl you have the vast majority of player use MK and to a lesser extent Snake, Falco and DeDeDe with a few other characters being able to hold their own some what. With MK gone Snake, G&W, DeDeDe, ROB, Falco, Pika, Marth and Diddy all counter each other with characters like ZSS, DK and Lucario also being more viable as counter pick characters. -------------------
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Elliot Gale Ride! Neolife since: Apr 2002	Apr 20, 09 at 2:56am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	+ICs On BOTH lists. =< ------------------- Check out Cardfight!! Vanguard! We are... the Little Busters!.
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Power of Slash Well then =o Neolithic total posts: 6784 since: Mar 2002	Apr 20, 09 at 2:59am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	Just to throw this out on a limb do people even have concrete evidence for matchups against lower tier characters? Do people Really know what the R.O.B vs. PT matchup is? or have we even cared enough to figure it out? We for sure know what the MK vs. PT matchup is, and what the MK vs. anybody matchup is like, but can we really say that with MK here we haven't ignored all the other matchups? ------------------- Gonna lurk mmmm... you can find me if you really need me. Lol
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Cloud9157 Resident Neo total posts: 2889 since: Jul 2008	Apr 20, 09 at 2:59am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	Ice Climbers... MAYBE we should keep MK around.
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stabbedbyahippie nigg@s in da club Relentless total posts: 9370 since: Aug 2007	Apr 20, 09 at 2:59am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	Also, it's not just MK stopping them. It's a chain of events. For instance, Mk counters both Marth and ROB. Being countered by the best and most popular character in the game stop people from using them as much so Falco who is countered by Marth and Snake who is countered by ROB are able to run rampant. Now Marth and ROB still have bad match ups but instead of being able to go with the Placebo method of just picking MK, they actually have to Counter Pick or work through a bad matchup. Edit: Lol I forgot about the Ice Climbers. -------------------
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pokewifidude dangerous since: Apr 2008	Apr 20, 09 at 3:00am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	quote Anton Herrera quote pokewifidude quote SonicFire inb4MK is broken :3 No MK shouldn't be banned. He's not unbeatable. There are much gayer characters on most stages than MK. He's not the worst match-up for most, if not all of the roster. Good Snakes > Good MKs. His seemingly lag-less moves aren't so bad unless you're using some horrible character like Lucas or Jiggz. And so on. D: Lucas is not a horrible character - he is way better than heaps, esp. DIDDY! But Lucas is a bad character. He is not! ------------------- Credit Goes to Automated
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Shisui Neo or Bust total posts: 7009 since: Mar 2008	Apr 20, 09 at 3:01am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	quote stabbedbyahippie I'm gonna go off on a limb and compare this to Melee. In Melee tournaments, Falco, Fox, Marth, Falcon, Peach, Jigglypuff and Sheik are all viable and counter each other along with some lesser characters like Doc and Samus who can hold their own. In Brawl you have the vast majority of player use MK and to a lesser extent Snake, Falco and DeDeDe with a few other characters being able to hold their own some what. With MK gone Snake, G&W, DeDeDe, ROB, Falco, Pika, Marth and Diddy all counter each other with characters like ZSS, DK and Lucario also being more viable as counter pick characters. well all this is really good only problem is, with the exception of mewtwo maybe, u could main just about anyone in melee and place fairly high in various tournies given that skill>match up in melee to a certain extent not the case in brawl but meh, i just felt like spitting that out for no reason since my arguement has pretty much been countered with ur post. tho i like the idea of marth being higher -------------------
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Power of Slash Well then =o Neolithic total posts: 6784 since: Mar 2002	Apr 20, 09 at 3:02am ^ re: Should MK be banned? Poll #3
	we could go with the "a bad character's a bad character" theory, but when the Yoshi's found that Chainspike on MK, the hype on Yoshi was absolutely ridiculous. People started taking note of that. All I'm saying is that maybe one can find SOMETHING in these characters that wasn't there before. since we all shifted our attention on what goes about beating meta knight and converging all of our efforts to high tiers, while simply disregarding everything below. ------------------- Gonna lurk mmmm... you can find me if you really need me. Lol
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Should MK be banned? Poll #3 - Page 11

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