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Topic: About bailing out
Knight of Gold
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since: Oct 2003
Nov 30, 07 at 09:46AM
About bailing out

I have a sort of technical question here, and though it aint exactly something that should go on this forum I think Ill get a better answer from you guys...

Imagine a combat pilot using regular equipment, or lets say, a little bit better equipped than usual, just to endure the cold and all those factors with more ease...
I simply would like to know the following...

What's the maximun speed on which it is still possible to eject (and survive)?

What's the highest altitude from which you can do so, innitiating a free fall movement?

How long would it take?

At what altitute can you open the parachute (assuming its a good parachute because the force that will act against it will be severe)?

I know the following as a fact:
The current world reccord for a parachute jump is little above 30 km I think, more than 100k feet.
The man who made this jump reached supersonic speed during freefall, let us say, he was a man who travelled at super sonic speed without help of any particular device, just gravity acceleration.


To put things on a clearer image:

Imagine one of those small "orbital spaceplane" such as the never used but good intended MiG-105 "Spiral", imagine the pilot aint wearing the thypical heavy cosmonaut suit but something that allows him better mobility, also imagine such craft has a device similar to an ejection seat in the given case the craft is dammaged yet survives re-entry but the pilot has to bail out... Thats pretty much the situation I had in mind, yeh, I been reading a lil bit of Psi-Fi but the thing is that I just had my Statics final exams, the science which explains perfect equilibrium of things, my question is more on the field of Dynamics, but I shan't be taking the course till next year and I really want to know .



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Xenostrike 06
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Dec 01, 07 at 06:10PM
re: About bailing out

Design of the Ejection seat may have great influence in Pilot's survivability

The Speed limit for Ejection may Vary..MiG-25's Zvezda Strela Ejection seat is able to operate in Mach 2,5++ in altitude of somewhere if i'm not wrong..10.000 Meters





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Knight of Gold
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Knight of Gold's profileKnight of Gold's neohome
since: Oct 2003
Dec 02, 07 at 07:58AM
re: About bailing out

A Match 2.5 bailing out uh ? Guess after ejecting at that speed you wont be up for flying in a while.

But still, and I guess 10k meters is descent considering it is the usual combat altitude (around 30k feet right?), but still, that plane has a maximum altitude of about 20k meters does it no? Think there can be an ejection seat that could operate at 30k meters or so?

Thanks



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Coi Cki
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Dec 02, 07 at 09:46AM
re: About bailing out

I saw a documentary of fighterplanes a while back, and they interviewed a pilot who had bailed out. His spine had compressed and he was two inches shorter than he used to be.
Anyone know how many G's the pilot has to endure when bailing out? I think they said it in the documentary, but can't remember it...



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Knight of Gold
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Knight of Gold's profileKnight of Gold's neohome
since: Oct 2003
Dec 03, 07 at 12:22AM
re: About bailing out

Lets say pretty much enough for your vertebral column to be compressed into discs... pretty painful... but much better than buying the farm.

I was thinking... I had a concept I wanted your opinion about, regarding escape measures:

A sort of space airplane is damaged during re-entry due to an improper angle, lets just say the ship barely survived disintegration but now its breaking up at extreme high altitude, so lets assume the whole cockpit section can detach as if it was an escape pod at little above 100k feet, but this one is also damaged, forcing the pilot to bail out from it as well (like a secondary ejection system, since the pod was the first one), at lets say 90k feet, considering the pilot can survive the hazardous maneuver (as it is full of debris all around him) on which the pilot would begin free fall... facing the facts, the acceleration would be legendary, but lets say... you do can open your first parachute at 15k feet right? Well, obviously the parachute, pilot suit and all that stuff would be a little bit more specialized than the usual stuff... and some safety system to deploy the parachute in case the pilot loses consciousness... dunno, that is the whole idea in general... scape pods with ejection seats for space airplanes, yeh, that would be it , think it would work?

Sorry if I cannot give myself to understand properly, my English has rusted a little and my brain ended up as oat meals after finals of Statics, Lineal Algebra and Differential Equations .



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Xenostrike 06
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Dec 03, 07 at 05:45AM
re: About bailing out

First manned Space Craft Vostok has Ejection seat..all Russian Space Craft has Ejection seat..and it works well in very high altitude MiG-25's Ejection seat has its own Oxygen supply system..allowing ejection in Extreme altitude



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Knight of Gold
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Dec 03, 07 at 09:09AM
re: About bailing out

!

Aye, you right, Russian ejection seats are the best, now I remember a documentary about the whole thing... a MiG 29 suffered an accident and the pilot ejected while the top of the cockpit was facing the ground, because of the low altitude, the pilot should have been shot straight to his death against the ground, but apparently the ejection seat had an extra rocket charge that corrected the angle for easily some 60 degrees.

Some time ago I say the James Bond Film "Moonraker" on which he uses a space shuttle armed with lasers to go after and destroy a pod that will spread a biological weapon over the earth, and he manages to shot it down right when its entering the atmosphere just before being forced to pull out since the attack angle is obviously not a proper angle for entry into the atmosphere... then I just thought, for a piece of Psi-Fi I wrotte... a Starfighter (not an F-104, "real" starfighter:P, though such thing is fiction), goes after the last of thousands of missile fired by a dreadnought that the rest of the defending fleet failed to intercept, successfully destroying it but unable to pull out or correct the angle of entry in time, the aircraft is seriously damaged, somehow surviving total instant disintegration given the aircraft's level of technological development, the pilot survives but its forced to eject at very high altitude... and yeh, its all Psi-Fi, but that one last part at least, I did want to go through technical revision, though my Statics/Dynamics teachers were a little close minded regarding why would I ask about such thing, but now I think you've guys have given me the technical go for it .



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Viperlord
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Dec 03, 07 at 11:15AM
re: About bailing out

Here is the solution. Don't get shot down, unless you want spinal injuries. You can get badly maimed by ejecting, especially at high speed.



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Xenostrike 06
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Dec 07, 07 at 11:47PM
re: About bailing out

if your Ejection seat is Zvezda Strela K-36M..no need to worry about Spinal injury..That Ejection seat even has a Massage function...



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Knight of Gold
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since: Oct 2003
Dec 09, 07 at 10:42AM
re: About bailing out

It by far the finest ejection seat in the world, greatly increasing the pilot's survival chances, enough for the Americans themselves to consider it for the Raptor and Lighting II... but of course, pilitics won over the sense of doing the best thing possible and they bought Egnlish seats, which are still quite good but not the best.



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Rabsh
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Dec 11, 07 at 05:41AM
re: About bailing out

Pilots have an Anti-G suit which keeps them pretty warm as well. it's quite tough too, so i'd say the max speed they may bail out may be around... 190 Knots. risk of injuries, but nothing serious.



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Xenostrike 06
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Dec 11, 07 at 08:26AM
re: About bailing out

quote Rabsh
Pilots have an Anti-G suit which keeps them pretty warm as well. it's quite tough too, so i'd say the max speed they may bail out may be around... 190 Knots. risk of injuries, but nothing serious.
hmm but i think Design of the ejector seat may influence that speed

anyway...i think "anti-G" suit terms aren't suitable for G-suit because G-suit as well as pilot's seat are designed to keep pilot's consciousness during High-G maneuver...pilot will still feel the G-shock

That's why F-16 pilot are trained in hard physical training..and short necked pilot is more preferrable than long one because that physical profile would be be able to endure High-G condition



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