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TommyVercetti101 3.30.13 Hooked on Neo total posts: 4260 since: May 2007	Feb 23, 13 at 10:29am ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
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Phil Anselmo s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1759 since: May 2009	Feb 23, 13 at 1:36pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	quote BlackLabel quote Phil Anselmo quote Aussie Legend All I got to hope is that Microsoft watched Sony's conference and goes out and buys hardware that beats the PS4 technically wise, because if they come out at with their leaked specs after seeing the PS4 its gonna be an absolute joke. Did I miss something? Last time I looked at the specs for both they looked very similar. Leaked specs have the Xbox 720 as a vastly weaker system.. The CPU's in both Xbox 720 and PS4 are similar utilising an 8-Core AMD CPU at 1.6Ghz but that is where everything changes. PS4 has a GPU featuring 18 compute units and is based on the HD 7870 running at 1.84 teraFLOPS. The Xbox 720 GPU has 12 compute units and is based on the HD 6670 running at 1.2 teraFLOPS. The PS4 has 8Gb GDDR5 RAM running at 176Gb/s and Xbox 720 has 8Gb DDR3 running at 68Gb/s. Now of course the Xbox 720 specs are based on rumour but the guy that leaked the specs got raided by the FBI on Microsoft's behalf. If the leak was harmless Microsoft would have ignored him but instead they raided him adding a substantial amount of credibility to his leak. As of right now if the leak is accurate and nothing has changed since then, it makes Xbox 720 is 50% less powerful than PS4 based on everything we know about PS4 now. How do you calculate that percentage? And I'm far from a computer engineer, and I don't play one on the internet, but this post seems to suggest otherwise. Also, not sure where you got your 68gb/s, but this article says the "Durango" will have a grand total of 170GB/s of bandwidth. All in all, we won't be able to differentiate between the two until the consoles & games are released. The PS3 was supposed to be 10,000,000x more powerful than the X360, and we all know how that turned out. Edit: Feb 23, 13 1:50pm
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harshpaper unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Feb 23, 13 at 1:56pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	Meh..probably much like sonymicrosoft domain net debunked as long time ago, period.
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BlackLabel I AM THE TABLE!! Resident Neo GameGrep pts: 1171 since: Jun 2008	Feb 23, 13 at 2:22pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	Phil Anselmo, I get my figures from Digital Foundry who are usually the best at breaking down tech. The Xbox 720's main memory is DDR3 and 8Gb at a speed 2033Mhz outputs a bandwidth of 68Gb/s. What gives the Xbox 720 that bandwidth increase is the 32Mb of ESRAM, which will help a bit but not as much as it looks on paper. Yes on paper the 32Mb ESRAM, with a bandwidth of 102Gb/s gives the system a total of 170Gb/s bandwidth, but that 32Mb isn't going to do all that much. The biggest issue is the graphics card, and current leaks have the graphics card in the 720 at 50% weaker, it has less compute units, runs slower and yields less power. Now I'm not a mathematician and I go only on what the experts at Digital Foundry say, but they don't get things wrong often and if they say the PS4 is 50% more powerful based on current 720 leaks, then I'm more inclined to agree with them. Though that said I am willing to admit to being wrong if in April the Xbox 720 has it's unveiling and everything is different, I'll even send you a PM admitting I was wrong lol. As for the PS3 thing there is very good reason why the PS3 being close to twice as powerful in certain areas meant nothing, and that's because it was hard to develop for. This time if PS4 really is more powerful, that won't be an issue as PS4 is utilising the x86 platform which from a programming sense is simple. Overall I hope that I am wrong and that Digital Foundry are wrong, as a system launching less powerful will affect how advanced multi-platform games can be and I don't want that.
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Phil Anselmo s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1759 since: May 2009	Feb 23, 13 at 2:34pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	quote BlackLabel The Xbox 720's main memory is DDR3 and 8Gb at a speed 2033Mhz outputs a bandwidth of 68Gb/s. What gives the Xbox 720 that bandwidth increase is the 32Mb of ESRAM which will help a bit but not as much as it looks on paper. Yes on paper the 32Mb ESRAM with a bandwidth of 102Gb/s gives the system a total of 170Gb/s bandwidth, but that 32Mb isn't going to do all that much. Everything I've read suggests otherwise, in that the SRAM will compensate very well for Microsoft's decision to go with DDR3. But remember, two months ago the PS3 was supposed to only have 4gb of RAM. Specs can change. We'll have to wait until late April it seems. EDIT: After reading this, I don't know what to believe.
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Shinobi_razor Mark Nutt Legendary Seeker total posts: 17255 since: Sep 2004	Feb 23, 13 at 2:36pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	i highly doubt the leaked specs are completely accurate. and even if they are, you cant really know the difference until you see both systems playing the same game side by side. 720 will run beautiful looking games and have much farther draw distances than this current gen, so no need to get caught up on what system has better specs like Sony fanboys always do.
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BlackLabel I AM THE TABLE!! Resident Neo GameGrep pts: 1171 since: Jun 2008	Feb 23, 13 at 3:01pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	quote Phil Anselmo Everything I've read suggests otherwise, in that the SRAM will compensate very well for Microsoft's decision to go with DDR3. But remember, two months ago the PS3 was supposed to only have 4gb of RAM. Specs can change. We'll have to wait until late April it seems. EDIT: After reading this, I don't know what to believe. Wow the specs in that link are insane.. I had a look at what that site sourced and it brought me here now on this it talks in detail about what this guy proposed for PS4. PS4 Tech Specs An APU with a fast GPU. 4GB of DDR3 RAM. 4GB of GDDR5 RAM. CPU is an x86 system with 256-bit bus. A more off the shelf design than the modded Xbox 720. "We all feel Omni is more of a pc in it design." Capable of 3.2TFlops of data. -- So what did he get right.. He got the fact that PS4 uses an APU with a fast GPU right. He got the fact it was an x86 system correct and that PS4 is more like a PC. He also got half the RAM right as well with GDDR5.. What did he get wrong.. The DDR3 RAM and the power output of the system, there is no way on earth PS4 is pushing 3.2 teraFLOPS of overall performance. Okay so he go most of it right and some of it wrong. I'm not sure if that actually helps at all in knowing if this guy is telling the truth or not. If we go back to his proposed Xbox 720 specs for a moment; Xbox 720 Tech Specs Three SOCs in one console. Two "Venus" models, and one "Mars". 8GB RAM, with 1GB devoted to operating system. Mars SOC - System SOC GPU AMD 8850 spec GPU clocked at 600mhz 4 core CPU is clocked @ 1.8GHz. It is an x86 system. Audio DSP 2 of Venus SOC - Application SOC GPU AMD 8900 spec GPU clocked at 800mhz with 10000HD series future tech 4 core CPU is clocked @ 2.5GHz 1.5 Gb of GDDR5 ram on each SOC (total 3GB) clocked @ 1.2Ghz Common factors 4GB of DDR4 RAM with 384 bit bus Ray tracing chip High speed blitter with 510 GB/s bandwidth between SOCs EDRAM Power brick is 300 watts, but SDKs are looking at 230 watts used. Capable of 4.2TFlops of data. -- Now that certainly looks like what we'd expect from a console of old with the overpowered for cheap mindset Sony used to go with. It's certainly powerful and exciting to read, though I just think it's reads more like a shopping list of what a gamer wishes next-gen will be and not what it will be. I mean two GPU's, two CPU's I mean that's just crazy. If that's legit and it could be as the guy got more than half the PS4 specs right then Xbox 720 is a beast.
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Balmung Neo-newbie since: Nov 2008	Feb 23, 13 at 3:35pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	quote BlackLabel quote Phil Anselmo quote Aussie Legend All I got to hope is that Microsoft watched Sony's conference and goes out and buys hardware that beats the PS4 technically wise, because if they come out at with their leaked specs after seeing the PS4 its gonna be an absolute joke. Did I miss something? Last time I looked at the specs for both they looked very similar. Leaked specs have the Xbox 720 as a vastly weaker system.. The CPU's in both Xbox 720 and PS4 are similar utilising an 8-Core AMD CPU at 1.6Ghz but that is where everything changes. PS4 has a GPU featuring 18 compute units and is based on the HD 7870 running at 1.84 teraFLOPS. The Xbox 720 GPU has 12 compute units and is based on the HD 6670 running at 1.2 teraFLOPS. The PS4 has 8Gb GDDR5 RAM running at 176Gb/s and Xbox 720 has 8Gb DDR3 running at 68Gb/s. Now of course the Xbox 720 specs are based on rumour but the guy that leaked the specs got raided by the FBI on Microsoft's behalf. If the leak was harmless Microsoft would have ignored him but instead they raided him adding a substantial amount of credibility to his leak. As of right now if the leak is accurate and nothing has changed since then, it makes Xbox 720 is 50% less powerful than PS4 based on everything we know about PS4 now. Hmm a 6670 is about 70 USD and a 7870 is about 220-240 ish. Microsoft may be playing it smart and going for a lower price point. Not to mention 8Gb ddr3>8gb gddr5
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Zombie_Barioth Won't quit falling to his death ultra seeker total posts: 1326 since: Jan 2011	Feb 23, 13 at 5:19pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	I have to agree with BlackLabel that those specs look more like a gamer's wishlist than anything else. Now granted if anyone knows how to strike a deal to get discounts for specs like those I'd probably be Microsoft but I'm withholding judgement until we get concrete evidence. Microsoft could very well be taking a page from Nintendo's book by going with moderate specs and focusing on other things. I'm all for taking a different approach and broadening their audience, but if they really start pushing Kinect and the social/multimedia aspect of the "720" over the games then I'm probably going to steer clear of it. ------------------- MHtri ID-W925FG US server
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Phil Anselmo s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1759 since: May 2009	Feb 23, 13 at 5:25pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	quote Zombie_Barioth but if they really start pushing Kinect and the social/multimedia aspect of the "720" over the games then I'm probably going to steer clear of it. Same. I just don't think that'll be the case. Kinect is popular, but that's not what sold all those X360's.
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Big A2 moderator General Nintendo 3DS since: Jan 2006	Feb 24, 13 at 4:24am ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	Obviously Microsoft isn't simply just trying to just rush out whatever loose information they have on their next console to compete with Sony. ------------------- Join the Neoseeker Film Club today, Mac! Now Showing: Elite Squad: The Enemy Within
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lKasHl just getting started! total posts: 130 since: Dec 2007	Feb 24, 13 at 6:20am ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	quote Balmung Hmm a 6670 is about 70 USD and a 7870 is about 220-240 ish. Microsoft may be playing it smart and going for a lower price point. Not to mention 8Gb ddr3>8gb gddr5 I'm not sure "playing it smart" would be the way to describe it. Sure console gamers aren't the most discerning when it comes to graphical fidelity, but shipping with 1/2 the power of your main competition and calling your product "next gen" is a bold statement for even Microsoft to pull off, unless the price is literally half that off the PS4 or they have some magic way of differentiating themselves from anything seen in the console realm. On the other hand if its true and everything is running x86 it'll be like having 3x computers on the market, the the XBOX and PS4 shipping as budget hardware and mid range hardware respectively and the PC taking low/mid/high end. OHHHHH happy days, everything will be unified and optimised at last
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Phil Anselmo s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1759 since: May 2009	Feb 24, 13 at 9:12am ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	quote Big A2 Obviously Microsoft isn't simply just trying to just rush out whatever loose information they have on their next console to compete with Sony. Right, because this has never happened before & marketing ploys have never been similar between two companies in direct competition.
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Slash ¯¯¯¯¯ Neo: Essential total posts: 11512 neopoints: 275 since: Jul 2009	Feb 24, 13 at 2:25pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	Microsoft can have the best specs but I won't buy it if you still have to pay for online lol Plus IMO Sony and Nintendo have better exclusives then Microsoft's -------------------
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Phil Anselmo s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1759 since: May 2009	Feb 24, 13 at 3:05pm ^ re: XboxEvent.com registered by Microsoft's E3 presentation organizers
	quote Slash Microsoft can have the best specs but I won't buy it if you still have to pay for online lol Plus IMO Sony and Nintendo have better exclusives then Microsoft's Don't be surprised if Sony charges for their new online service. And judging from your signature... yeah.
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