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Backfordiamond
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Jul 11, 07 at 11:22am
How to make a team with a theme

Ok, this may be more fitting in the movesets thread, but this is somthing that is being brought up a lot, and is excessively hard to explain in short terms. You see the word theme tossed around a lot nowadays. Why? Because in Diamond/Pearl, there has been such an unprecedented increase in threats, that you can no longer have a fully effective counter to every pokemon in OU/BL, no matter what you do. This is why themes are becoming the standard rather than the exception. A solid theme will allow you to do a lot of damage to the enemy team so their pokemon do not become threats, even if your team isn't prepared to counter them. For example, after a few dragon dances a Gyarados can counter electric types.

Step 1: Pick your first pokemon
To start your team out, pick your FAVORITE pokemon within some amount of reason. Don't be discouraged by tiers, a UU can compete in OU, UUs are classified there because alone, a UU would seldom beat an OU. With proper support, a UU will do fine in OU, even some NUs like butterfree sneak into competitive play on occasion. But don't try somthing that's too pathetic like luvdisc or Farfetch'd (although, one day I will make an NU team and Farfetch'd will doubtlessly be the star player).

Step two: Analyze that Pogeyman
For the sake of example, let's say my favorite pokemon is Octillery, and I am heart set on having him on my team. First, lets look at his base stats:
HP 75
Attack: 105
Defense: 75
Sp. Atk: 105
Sp. Defense: 75
Speed: 45

Ok, he is pretty solid statwise, not at all bad for UU, except for speed. We must now find a way to compliment his speed. But first, let's continue analyzing the good ol' puss.

Abilities:
Suction cups: Roar and Whirlwind do not effect this pokemon
Sniper: Critical hits do x4 damage instead of x2

Special movepool(only considering the better moves, bubble is teh lose):
Charge Beam
Surf
Ice Beam
Flamethrower
Energy Ball
Fire Blast
Flash Cannon
Hyper Beam
Psychic
Signal Beam
Sludge Bomb
Wring Out

Ok, lots of choices here. He has quite the special movepool.

Physical Movepool:
Gunk Shot
Bullet Seed (lol)
Rock Blast (lol)
Return
Waterfall
Payback
Giga Impact
Flail
Facade
Constrict

Somewhat respectable but offers subpar covrage. It is now apparent that he should be a mixed or special user, onto support

Support movepool:
Thunder Wave
Haze
Toxic
Attract
Endure
Focus Energy
Supersonic

Again, not abysmal but not that good. Focus energy is interesting, set up with that and hope for a sniper crithax, but not very reliable.

Step 3: Pick the pokemon that compliments him the best
Ok, back to his speed, he has none. How can I fix that? Well, that gets me my second pokemon: Ninjask with an agility BPing set holding a focus sash. Protect>agility>baton pass, he will pass 4 speeds to octy, making him the fastest puss this side of the pacific. Then, abuse octy's wide movepool for an unresistable set with high base special attack. Use this to sweep his team. This is made even more attractive a synergy because Octillery has suction cups, which means he is immune to phasing, the bane of all baton passers.

Step 4: Pick another pokemon you like, and someone who compliments him
Ok, now we have Ninjask and Octillery, that is our primary theme. Ok, now pick another pokemon you like, lets say I like Kingdra now.

Take a good look at stats again, I won't go indepth, but Kingdra has a decent movepool and stats that are a lot like mews, but lower. Kingdra has swift swim, which is like a free agility under rain dance, as well as STAB surf. With Kingdra's stats, you can do just about anything within the limits of his movepool. But raindance needs to be there, let's make him a special tank, because that's how I like using mine. Now we have a special defender, who is a good physical defender who will benefit from raindance too? Let's throw vaporeon in there, he can also provide superb wish support. Now we have four pogeymanz: Ninjask, Octillery, Kingdra, and Vaporeon.

Step 5: Fill in gaps, balance the team out
We have three electric weaknesses, that's no good. Let's get a good ground type who can beat up any mean boltbeamers trying to harrass our team. Garchomp is fast, fairly sturdy and very strong, great for a switchin on a cocky boltbeamer. Scarfchomp is nessicary though, because boltbeamers will icebeam him otherwise. A STAB outrage will bring them in line.

Ok, that's five, team is almost done. Any other issues? We have a lack of type coverage, let's put someone in there who can cover a LOT of types. Standard electivire can work, running thunder on him because of Kingdra's raindance, can cover 13 of 17 types super effectively. He also provides a second option to help with electric weaknesses. Now this team is really rolling.

Ok! Now we've got a team with powerful themes running, there is one main theme (Ninjask BP's to Octillery, octy sweeps his heart out) and two support/backup themes, because octy probably won't 6-0 an enemy (raindance tanking and electivire switchins on electric attacks).

Now, I am NOT saying that your primary theme needs to be baton pass. Baton pass happened to work extremely well because Octillery is only lacking in one stat, and is immune to phasing moves. It will all depend on that pokemon you decide to build your team around. I built my personal team around my beloved (although predictable and OU'd as hell) bulkydos. Actually, this team ended up extremely similar to my team, but it's three in the morning (insomnia is a pain) and i'm not picky.

I think this is a decent expansion on what I try to say when explaining how to build a theme for a team. You can not take six pokemon and ask "what theme could I use?", you need to go in and build from the bottom up instead of picking six random pokemon out of OU.

Think of it as building one of those lame paper chains in elementary school. Each of your pokemon is a strip of paper, your theme is the glue that holds them together. The kid who thought he was cool and brushed a bunch of rubber cement on will have his chain break and get an F and never go anywhere in life while the kid who spends a half hour with glue touching it up will get an A and doubtlessly become a powerful CEO some day, due in part to his paper chain making skills.
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WiseLugia
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Jul 11, 07 at 11:37am
re: How to make a team with a theme

*claps* Vely nice. I found this whole process hard to put unto words myself, and it's good to see. Hopefully now everyone will start to get it.



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pokedog
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Jul 11, 07 at 11:41am
re: How to make a team with a theme

wow, thats nice work



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Meka
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Yoshi_Fn
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Jul 11, 07 at 2:50pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

Very good and somwhat confussing to me



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bennettchipper
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Jul 11, 07 at 3:29pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

thanks so much, i never got it, but now i do, thanks

if u have time at some point, maybe consider doing another example without baton pass
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WiseLugia
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Jul 11, 07 at 3:39pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

My Heracross Team

BPing Subs and Wishes from Vap helps on this team, but isn't required. Vap may get booted for Rapid Spin Starmie. Gallade may leave for Hypnosis + Will o Wisp Gengar, and Tangrowth may switch Sleep Powder to Stun Spore.


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MsKtty89
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Jul 11, 07 at 3:54pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

quote WiseLugia
Vap may get booted for Rapid Spin Starmie. Gallade may leave for Hypnosis + Will o Wisp Gengar, and Tangrowth may switch Sleep Powder to Stun Spore.
I like your Vaporeon. Gallade, though, just sticks in my head as "Noble Sacrifice" after you said that.

@ Backfordiamond: Thank you for that explanation, it really helped!


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Dajay
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Jul 11, 07 at 4:31pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

You know what you said about Octillery?

Why would you try to speed up a pokemon that has absymal speed?

In my opinion that's like making Gyarados a Special Sweeper.





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WiseLugia
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Jul 11, 07 at 5:05pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

Speed is the only problem with Octillery though. With that fixed, it does fine.



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Backfordiamond
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Jul 11, 07 at 5:06pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

Those are two completely different things. Speeding up Octillery is good because all of his other stats are perfectly fine, he is just too slow to normally compete in OU. This makes him the perfect target for a speedpass, as he has respectable special attack and a good movepool. Marowak and Rampardos have the same issue, massive potential but too slow. Plus, octy is one of two pokemon with suctioncups, which makes them immune to phase moves which would ruin a baton pass otherwise.

Making Gyarados a special sweeper is taking a pokemon and misusing its stats for no particular higher purpose. After four speed, octy is faster than almost everything in OU, if you use a timid set with 100spd EVs, he outspeeds base 130s with two I think. You could make a special gyarados work, just BP some nasty plots or choicespecs him, not as good as normal sets but hey, nobody will see it coming. Every unorthadox tactic or set has at LEAST that much going for it.
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ssbm freak
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Jul 11, 07 at 5:46pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

Intellegence being showed in the main forum?
Things have changed the 2 hours I have been gone.

Well My theme involves a wall and a wall/sweeper...
I'm thinking of sneaking in Smeargal(despite it's terrible stats.) to get rid of all those annoying phasers with ingrain pass since I have to BP a few times...
Once again I will say this is the only use for Smeargal besides Egg moves. So if you got owned by my smeargal in the past it was just because you were falling into my ploy from the very beginning and you did not see it coming... that and you didn't take advantage of sleep clause... >_>

I have swellow as an Early and Late sweeper... when it is in danger I U-Turn into one of my Counters who do the buffing for BP. It's a fairly simple yet effective strategy... I don't use my weavile ever since I got rid of SD on it and it's unnecessary on my new team. Should I get rid of that and replace it with Smeargal for the Ingrain Pass?


EDIT: Just because Themes are in doesn't mean Spikes are dead. It is posible to set up a spikes theme..
How hard is it to BP Iron Defense(x3) to a whirlwind Snorlax after setting all the spikes up?


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Illegit
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Jul 11, 07 at 6:11pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

Spikes are intergal parts of themes. check WL's team again. He took out Ice Beam from Dugtrio to make it a STer. Skarms works into most teams as a physical wall, themes doesn't mean that ALL pokemon have to follow the rules.

Raikou teams are a good example of this, lurk long enough in smogon and you'll see that.
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ssbm freak
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Jul 11, 07 at 6:18pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

Skarm can still be used these days?

I hate Raikou. I was gonna use him for Roar T-Waving but I realized that it would never work. xD

So what you are saying is I should include some spikes? All I see neccesary is Stealth Rock just for the sake of killing Focus Sashers. And then just keep a counter for Spikers in handy which you can put into the pokemon used in your themes.

Spikes teams need unique themes and I always see it coming back to a BP theme with Snorlax.


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quote Sho Minamimoto
Any tree can drop an apple, I'll drop the freakin moon.
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Illegit
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Jul 11, 07 at 6:22pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

quote Illegit
Spikes are intergal parts of themes.
They don't need to be the center >_>
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ssbm freak
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Jul 11, 07 at 6:34pm
re: How to make a team with a theme

I saw that and I commented on that and agreed with you and after that I mentioned how Spikes could EFFECTIVELY be used as a center for a theme...



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quote Sho Minamimoto
Any tree can drop an apple, I'll drop the freakin moon.
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