Abortion - Page 17

quote Wakaman

Because a child needs love, most of the children that make it out of an orphanage are the babies/2-4 year olds.
How do you think it affects the others that don't?

How do you kill it before it's even born though, seriously?
The purpose would be to not just pop out babies for the sake of popping them out. There is some amount of responsibiity that goes with having them you know. Throwing them away like they're Yesterday's trash is, imo, as bad as killing them off as you say.

Your belief isn't above anyone elses, and your belief shouldn't force an unwanted child on someone just like religion shoudn't deny medication and the right to abort.

Yes Children need love. But to decide that their life is now meaningless because they don't have that is jumping a few steps.


No, my belief is not above anyone else's. I never said that. What I said was that the question of whether a fetus is a human or not is the central point of contention, and that is what the debate should be framed on, not woman's rights. If a fetus really is human, then a mother should have limited cases in where it is justified for her to terminate it. If a fetus is not actually human, then absolutely. Who cares what women do with a clump of cells? It is her body.

Of course, the definition of a human is such a philosophically complex question that is honestly above my quotient level. I'm not going to even try to make an argument on that. What I'm trying to do is properly frame this debate at least.

quote Exonerate

Also, what the *bleep* is a straw man?

A Scarecrow.

quote Tay Rex

And you keep talking about how that baby is a human too. So why does that make it okay to infringe the rights of another human?

Like I said before, and I'll explain it again. All laws infringe on somebody, somewhere's three basic natural rights. The key is knowing what you protect over what you lose. You legislature against murder, for example so you restrict my freedom to do what I want, but you protect the victim's right to life.

quote Tay Rex

Most people in general, in films, books, art all say that having feelings and emotions is truly human. That zygote can't do that. That's why I say zygote and not human. It's still homo sapien but it isn't a person.

I respect your opinion and I disagree. I won't go any farther because I want to focusing on the framing of the debate first.

quote Tay Rex

(or putting it up for adoption, something I've already said is cruel to do for both mother and child) is torture and it infringes her rights. It would cause her more and the child more pain than it would to get rid of the zygote before it developed the ability to feel.

That's a dangerous assumption you're making about a hypothetical human being's entire life. Life has suffering. You can't change that. In fact, ALL abortion causes less net pain in anyone's life, normal, retarded, rich or poor. If I were aborted, yes I would feel less pain, but I would lose out on so much in life. I yet haven't found my wife yet. I haven't yet held my children in my arms and watched them grow. I haven't yet laid back on my deathbed, feel my life slip away with loving family around me. I haven't prayed my final prayer to the Lord.

You can never quantify the good that comes from a life, but you can't be caught up in the bad. The danger so many people fall into sometimes is that they forget the good in life. They forget how to have faith and hope.

It's not the pain, it's the termination of life that I have issue with. Even a death without pain is still death.
None of this is convenient for anyone. But it's not about convenience anymore because a life is on the line.


You still don't see the fetus as human, and I have to respect that opinion, but you're honestly just treading water here. The only discussion that has to happen over abortion is the determination of when a fetus becomes a human being, and that's that. Not going to discuss it anywhere else because I know doing so just makes it circular. Don't feel like discussing right now, though, either. Hm.

quote Triforce of Wisdom

quote harbin91

quote Phi

Prevention such as cheap and easy access to birth control and proper sex education from an early age should be number one. But abortion should never be denied in any case. It you provide these things then abortion rates always drop.

You forget that religious nutters are against both.

Old post, but people seem to think that they can outlaw both abortion and birth control and not have any conflict there. If there's one thing history has taught us, it's that guys can't keep it in their pants and girls can't keep their legs shut.

EDIT: OK, that sounded really bad now that I think it over. It's just that young people, especially teenagers, are going to be *bleep*ing no matter what, no matter how we educate them. Like Cobalt said, he got drunk and ended up with a kid. People think you can get rid of all the solutions and safeguards and people will just not do each other until they're married.

To explain myself out on this better, I honestly had every intention of marrying that woman, even before I got her pregnant, and I did.

^^ Award for the Most Potentially Awkward Statement Ever goes to... Ben73!


Congrats! Because you do realize you're talking about his completely not-aborted child right now, right?

quote Ben73

Yeah It was just a joke. But no way in hell I would want to have a kid while I was a teen myself.

I understand, but you do realize this is the internet, where jokes are lost in translation; constantly.