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Oct 8, 12 at 12:49pm ^Computer build and ordering components...
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I am planning on getting a new desktop and would love to make this into an opportunity to learn about computer building...
The problem being that I am really new at this... also, I have recently moved to German speaking Austria and have yet to learn the language... But that's should be a minor problem in this case...
Anyway, I read this excellent guide and decided to take its suggestion and come here asking for advice about what components to order...
My goal is to build a gaming desktop, I do not necessarily aim for the "best there is at what it does", although something that could last me a few years would be nice...
My price range is... negotiable... I could put in as much as $2000 -$2500, although; less would be better...
Apart from that, I have little concern, I'd like to have an external temperature display for the CPU, because Summers get quite hot over here and I am a bit paranoid, but that's about it...
Anyway, I did a bit of homework and constructed this list and; unless I am being stupid, these would work together:
Intel Core i7-3770K, 4x 3.50GHz, boxed (BX80637I73770K)
Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H, Z77 (dual PC3-12800U DDR3)
Antec Kühler Flow (0761345-77082-8)
Cooler Master Silencio 550, 650W ATX 2.3, schallgedämmt (RC-550-KKN1)
Axle GeForce GT 640, 4GB DDR3, VGA, DVI, HDMI, low profile (AX-GT640/4GSD3P8CDIL)
ADATA Premier DIMM 32GB PC3-12800U CL11 (DDR3-1600) (AD3U1600W8G11-4)
AeroCool Shark Fan Blue Edition 120 (EN55420)
Hard drives (x2):
Toshiba DT01ACA Series 3000GB, SATA 6Gb/s (DT01ACA300)
ASUS BW-12B1ST, SATA, bulk (90-D83C114-UB0410)
Again, I would be happy if somebody more knowledgeable than me could tell me what he thinks of it, correct my mistakes and even make some suggestion to replace some of my poorest choice... I would be most grateful...
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Oct 13, 12 at 7:53am ^re: Computer build and ordering components...
Well, I for one prefer Intels (although AMD platforms are excellent too) and Gigabyte is my preferred board maker so already that's a good start, in my book.
There are some concerns, however.
I don't see a power supply listed. If the case's 650W ATX means that case comes with a 650W PSU, I would want something a little bigger - since you are putting in 32Gb of RAM and pretty serious graphics card. Plus, I would want to know the specifics of that 650.
I would recommend a "80-Plus Certified" 750 - 850W from a reputable maker.
That is a well build case, but I don't like tearing down my systems to lug them outside for internal cleaning. So I will never have a case without removable, washable air filters again. I line Antec cases for that, plus their included fans are top notch.
Note the terms of the Intel warranty for "boxed" retail versions of their CPUs that come supplied with an Intel cooler require you use the "accompanying thermal solution", or you violate the terms of the 3-year warranty. This is not a concern for many enthusiasts, and may not be for you. But it is something all builders (especially first timers) should know. The AMD Warranty, by the way, makes it crystal clear,
quote AMD WarrantyTo that, in spite of what many will tell you, the OEM supplied coolers from Intel (and AMD) are excellent coolers fully capable of keeping the CPU operating at a safe operating temperature - assuming of course, the case is doing its job of providing adequate front to back flow of cool air through the case, and the ambient (room) temperature is in the normal "creature comfort" range. I found this to be true, even with moderate overclocking. The downside to OEM coolers, IMO, is they are not quietest. Much better than a few years ago, but if using the computer in a home theater environment, any fan noise is too much.
If you are not concerned with maintaining a valid CPU warranty, then not a problem. It is not likely you will have any issues. But you never know, and I don't recommend omitting certain facts if seeking warranty support as that is fraud, a serious criminal offense.
Finally, I don't see an OS listed. Please note a common misunderstanding among many users is they assume they can use their old Windows license on a new computer, or with their upgraded motherboard. The fact is the vast majority of Windows licenses are NOT legally transferable. Only the "boxed" full Retail license can be transferred to a new computer (or upgraded motherboard). It is illegal to use an OEM/System Builders license that came with or was purchased for one computer on another computer. A disk “branded” with a computer maker’s brand name, or is labeled with “OEM", "OEM/System Builder”, “Upgrade”, “Academic Edition”, or "For Distribution with a new PC only", is not transferable to a new PC (or upgraded motherboard) under any circumstances. These OEM licenses are inextricably tied to the "original equipment". And most importantly, as users, we agreed to the terms of the end-user licensing agreement (EULA) when we decided to continue to use the software on the original computer. And that makes it legally binding.
With that in mind, if you need to buy a new license, with you getting more than 4Gb you will need to ensure you get a 64-bit OS and I recommend 64-bit Windows 7, or one of the many free Linux alternatives.
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Oct 13, 12 at 8:08am ^re: Computer build and ordering components...
cpu and mobo are fine, the cooler is fine, though for your budget, grab the best of the best in air cooling, and buy a noctua NH-D14. case is fine, but if you are paranoid about temperatures, id suggest getting a cooler master HAF 922. for your budget, im surprised you are getting such a low end video card. you can grab a GTX 680. your RAM is completely overkill, though. no one needs 32 gigs for gaming. most people dont even need 4. get 8 GB. dont worry about getting fans if you get the HAF. it will have fans already. your hard drives seem overkill to me. are you actually going to use 6 TB of space? think about it before paying for something you might not ever use. and blu ray disk is fine. also, if you do get a GTX 680, a good quality 650 watt PSU will still be enough. people always overestimate the amount they need.
quotethe hell they arent. the whole point of getting an after market cooler is to get something better than the stock, which is only just enough for cooling the CPU. if it is barely enough to cool, it means the fan has to run faster to compensate, resulting in louder operations. after market coolers are better because of their improved heatsinks, and generally their improved fans, which not only perform better, but can be optimised for quiet operations for the same airflow.
also, there is no way for the manufacturer to know what kind of heatsink has been used on their CPU, so their warranty thing is an empty threat.
quotecall microsoft, make up some bull about the motherboard dying and being replaced, and there you go, you got your activation.
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Oct 13, 12 at 10:54am ^re: Computer build and ordering components...
quotePlease read what I said. I said OEM coolers are not the quietest. In fact I went on to say how folks replace them with quieter coolers in HTPC setups.
quoteThat is a blanket statement and like all blanket statements, it is wrong. Many aftermarket coolers are cheap knockoffs feeding off the false rumors spread that OEM coolers are bad. They are NOT bad. 10 years ago, maybe - but not today. Even when running at full speed, they are fairly (not the best) but fairly quiet - definitely quieter than many GPU coolers running full speed. Plus, today's CPUs are more efficient too and most generate less heat than those of yesteryear.
They have to be good - they are warrantied for 3 years where most aftermarket coolers are for 1 year, or even just 90 days. And cooler makers do NOT cover any damage (even if very rare) to the CPU.
Do NOT automatically use an aftermarket cooler based on unsubstantiated rumors. Try the OEM cooler first. Make sure your case is doing its job. Remember, the CPU cooler only has to toss the heat up into the air flow provided by the case, and the case must extract the heat from the interior.
If your temps are not controlled then, then consider an aftermarket cooler. But remember, motherboard designers cluster heat sensitive and heat generating devices (like the chipset and regulator circuits) around the CPU socket so they can take advantage of the EXPECTED OEM cooler's air movement. Side firing (and water) coolers do NOT provide that expected flow so "system" temps must be watched carefully if used.
quoteNo, but they can sure ask. And "because you won't get caught" is no excuse to commit fraud.
quotehiigaran is suggesting you deceive the CPU makers and Microsoft for personal gain. You can do that, lie to Microsoft or omit the truth. But understand that is fraud, a criminal offense, and in the case of software copyright infringements comes with potential fines of $250,000 plus 5 years in jail per incident. Your choice. There is no guarantee you will get away with it and certainly, he will not pay your fines.
Plus the Microsoft license agreement we all agree to when we first used the software makes it clear we can only transfer to a replacement motherboard during a repair with an identical motherboard from the same maker (or suggested replacement if original model is no longer in production).
I don't see the $100 for a legitimate OEM Windows 7 64-bit license too much in terms of costs, or to be legal.
I understand my comments are unpopular and go against common belief - but those are the facts anyway - and we agreed to them in our EULAs. Just because we won't likely get caught is no excuse to commit fraud.
quoteThe issue is, we don't know if it is a good quality PSU - thus my recommendation to get one from a reputable maker. Plus, while 650 is technically enough (1) it leaves little to no room for any future expansion - like another graphics card and (2) to use your own argument on noise, because it will be running much closer to capacity, the PSU's fan will be cranking at or near full speed much of the time - and being stuck to an exterior face of the case, make more noise than a bigger PSU that is loafing along.
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Oct 13, 12 at 11:34am ^re: Computer build and ordering components...
quoteapologies. i thought you, like most people, use OEM as a substitution for 'after market'/non-stock
quotewrong perhaps if you spend 5 bucks on one. only a fool would cheap out and get what is pretty much the same crap. im talking about proper after market air coolers. zalman, noctua, and cooler master, to name a few.
and to be clear, 'crap' in this context means something that is designed to only just do its job.
quote'good' is subjective. most likely, its 'good enough', which makes sense. why should intel or AMD provide something of higher quality, when their products work at stock? theres a reason why they dont stick some 2 kilo HSF on to the chip.
regardless, most people will be fine using the stock cooler, but, with the exception of those el cheapo HSFs, after market will be better for performance, noise, or both. in most cases, they are only needed if you live in a hot, dusty place, where you need the extra cooling as a buffer, and/or you want to do more than light overclocking.
quoteso, suppose your CPU messes up. some internal issue NOT caused by heat. are you going to admit to using an after market cooler, even though heat wasnt the issue? you just going to let 200 bucks go down the drain? sorry, but i find that hard to believe.
quoteyep, i am. lie to the companies. tell me, what happens when a legitimate user has a dead mobo and needs to replace it with a newer model? oh crap, gotta reactivate windows. what happens when someone wants to upgrade their computers? you expect someone to pay another hundred bucks for the same operating system they have used, even if they have purchased a windows disk already? please. you might have money shooting out of your ass, but most people dont. why do you think people pirate things as well? sure its illegal, but when things are at extortionist prices, who the hell is going to waste money on something so expensive? its wrong, but people do it. people like to justify it, even though there is no real justification, but there you have it. same thing applies here. and where do you draw the line between replacing hardware, and upgrading?
now unless microsoft sends employees to peoples houses to analyse any changed hardware, i dont see how someone would get caught in the first place. same thing applies to the CPU manufacturers.
in any case, we dont even know if OP has a disk to begin with (or at least one of his desired OS), so this argument is quite unnecessary here.
quoteassuming a good PSU, 650 would be plenty. looking at a 680, power consumption leaves plenty of room for SLI. not that im arguing with the noise issue here. a unit at roughly 70% load would definitely be heard, but if the 12v rail(s) support it, it will work with some room to spare.
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Oct 13, 12 at 12:39pm ^re: Computer build and ordering components...
quoteUmmm, sorry, but that is not true either. Most people correctly associate OEM with stock, "Original Equipment Manufacturer". And not aftermarket or non-stock.
quoteTo be sure, I have a nice monster Zalman in my HTPC. I have well over $5K in my home theater audio equipment alone. The last thing I want is to hear a fan rumbling during a quiet passage. But I put that fan on there, knowing, and accepting the consequences of "breaking the unit" of the CPU and supplied cooler, voiding the warranty and going with the Zalman.
I should point out that both AMD and Intel provide OEM versions of many of their CPUs without coolers, and for less money so you can, must, supply your own. But note those CPUs are warrantied for just one year, not three.
You say only a fool - that is an unfair statement! It assumes everyone (even those smart enough to ask questions first) has an understanding of coolers and cooling requirements when the vast majority of folks don't - and don't need to be. But to that, I frequently see $20 - $30 coolers being pushed - just because there are many (fools?) who automatically assume anything but the OEM cooler is better. Again - 10 years ago that might have been true. But not today.
quoteOnly the first part of that makes any sense. Sure, good is subjective. By "good", I mean they are well made, use quality precision bearings, provide the necessary cooling and are designed to last the life of the CPU when operated in all but extreme conditions. You say quality - quality denotes reliability and OEM fans (like the better models from the aftermarket makers you mention) are reliable.
quoteAgain, only half of that is right - if you do some heavy overclocking, you may need an aftermarket cooler. Hot and dusty places are up to the user and case cooling to deal with. Proper and or more frequent cleaning deals with heat trapping dust, not more cooling. Dust should never be allowed to accumulate to the point it significantly affects cooling.
quoteWhat can I say? I don't and you don't have the right to break the law or deceive another just because we don't have the money, or don't want to spend any more money. Especially for something not needed for me or my family's survival - like today's only meal.
quoteIt is there in black and white in the EULAs. You are allowed to replace anything, but the motherboard itself - unless an exact replacement as part of a repair action.
quoteReally? I mean I am not made of money but $100 for a brand new, 100% legal copy of Windows 7 seems pretty darn reasonable to me.
If that is too much money, don't steal! Use one of the free Linux alternatives. Two wrongs don't make it right.
quoteThey why keep at? And with me? You need to go argue with Microsoft, Intel and AMD if you don't like their use and warranty terms.
I am just saying as advisors, I think it important to warn someone if they might do something that is illegal, voids a warranty, or violates a "binding" agreement so they have ALL the necessary information needed to make an INFORMED decision. And I think it appropriate not to suggest to someone they do something that may void their warranty, or put them in legal consequences without at least warning them of those consequences too.
I'm just the messenger.
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Oct 13, 12 at 1:21pm ^re: Computer build and ordering components...
quotei dont know who you hang around with, but ive seen it more than enough times. not like it matters now, though.
quoteunfair? anyone who dives in to something they havent tried before and does not have the common sense to ask people who are knowledgeable in the field would be considered fools as far as im concerned. you dont drag your car in to your garage and attempt to replace the clutch without knowing what you are doing, or at the very least, asking for advice/help. thats just being plain foolish. if thats an unfair statement, so be it. doesnt change the fact that the person in question is a fool. same thing applies here. you never built a computer before, and you get an AMD CPU with an intel motherboard, and its your own damn fault for not even asking someone to look over your planned upgrade/build.
you want an improvement over the stock within that price range? 20 bucks for almost double the airflow, and a slightly lower max noise. another 20 bucks with almost half the noise of a stock, with a similar airflow to it. or a personal recommendation of mine for mid end cooling, 50 bucks for 90 CFM and 30 dBA.
quotewhen i say 'quality', i refer to the quality of the cooling. you can call it quantity if you like, but the way i see it, how much air a fan pushes per revolution sounds as much like quality as it does quantity. you want to talk about bearings, and how long it lasts, i consider that longevity, though granted, it is also quality.
quoteyou tell that to people who dont clean their cases regularly. and no, if you do some heavy overclocking, you WILL need an after market cooler. unless you stick your computer outside in a constantly below freezing climate. as for dust, yes, it traps heat, which results in an overall higher temperature. better coolers allow more tolerance to dust buildup. i thought that would have been obvious.
quotecant argue with that.
quoteso whats to stop me from purposefully spilling water on my motherboard, then saying 'heres my replacement'? is there anything in the EULA that says im not allowed to damage my board purposefully, for the sake of getting a legal upgrade for my motherboard? if so, where?
quotesome people need computers to do their work. some people also have massive debts to pay. perhaps a mortgage, student loan, or a car. now im all for paying for windows, but ill be damned if im going to pay for the exact same thing two years later. and linux is a horrible argument, simply because not everything is supported on it, and the alternatives may or may not be as good/compatible/exist. plus, most people find linux to have a very steep learning curve.
quotewell we DID bring up the topic. and why would i want to argue with a company, when my opinions probably wont change a thing, and there is a much simpler workaround?
quoteeh, i guess you are right.
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Oct 14, 12 at 12:19am ^re: Computer build and ordering components...
quote DigeratiWow, you sure do ramble. 1st of all if he calls Microsoft and gives him whatever story and they give him a new key, thats his business and there are no fines or legalitiees about it.
Where did you get your information about aftermarker air coolers? They are NOT cheap knockoffs and the stock air cooler from Intel point plain sucks.
If you knew anything about the 3770K(IvyBridge),which you don't..... they run hot. Extremely hot due to Intel's new 3D Trigate transistors and Intel's s stock cooler will not handle overclocking.
You also no nothing about warranties. Both AMD and Intel will certainly replace a CPU that goes bad with an aftermarket cooler and there is no fraud about this.......
I would not take any advise from this guy.....
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Oct 14, 12 at 12:22am ^re: Computer build and ordering components...
quote Simon29880The build looks good however, I would change 2 things. IvyBridges IMC(Internal memory controller) has been re-worked. The 3770K will pull over 2500MHz on memory. I would look at some quality 2133 or 2400MHz memory.
Second, your building a stout system and throwing in a low end GTX640. I would look at the GTX 670 if I were you.....
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