Religion and Does God Exist 34 - Page 21

quote Game Wizard

It's good that you refuse to believe something just because someone told you its so

Most people believe in evolution just because somebody told them so.

quote Fallen Hero

And do not post a dictionary definition as a rebuttal.

Yeah, those damn dictionaries always prove to be our downfall, don't they? Damn them. Damn them all!

Just kidding, man.

quote Super Me

quote azamjad

I've never understood people who say science and religion cant go hand in hand. The way I see it religion tells us why while science tells us how.

If you don't understand why people say this, then you most likely don't understand the science they speak of too. The very nature of science and religion causes the friction between them. Science is built upon hard, provable evidence. Religion relies on generations of "teaching" and blind faith.

Science is built upon data and information that human beings have gathered and formulated logical explanations from. Religion attempts to explain that which cannot be proven or disproven at this point in history. For instance, the world was flat back before we could prove otherwise, because religion said so--but when science proved the world was spherical in nature, the religious bit contradicting that "proven" (I use that loosely) fact was thrown out.

I believe for instance, that over the next few decades, we'll see the Creation Story equated to allegory and the Homosexuality position largely discarded from Christian doctrine.

As long as people think about it, they'll realize that a millenia-old Jewish explanation of the planet is definitely subject to change, and some (maybe most, or all, for all I know) of it was intended to be allegorical anyway.


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To everyone in the which-came-first universe/God discussion, let me throw this perspective in there:

Suppose God is completely free from the bounds of this universe. If that were the case, wouldn't it be easy to see Him as existing prior to this universe, "un-created" and all? I'll use a real-world example.

You're a computer programmer, and have designed a linear (most software these days) program, with hard-coding, objects, methods, constructors, the whole shebang. Now, when you run that program, it will begin at the first line of code and proceed through each and every code as you designed it, and when it reaches the final line and the order to terminate is reached, that program ends. The components within that program are a part of that program's progress through time, being involved in everything that takes place, but completely unable to destroy the temporal bounds of that program (unless you made a mistake in the coding and end up in an infinite loop, but you're God in this scenario, so that doesn't happen ). However, despite the complete inevitability of the passage of time in relation to that program's components' "lives and deaths", you, the programmer, the designer, are completely free from the bounds of that program. Its "time," therefore, does not control you. You are completely free from it.

Maybe we're the program, and God's the programmer.

This message was edited by Sspider on Sep 11 2007.

quote Seeker X

I feel even more insulted with you saying such a thing. Dude, you would KILL people if some God told you to, and you're talking about Evolution "theory brainwashing"? AND we don't need to just tell them, we have tangible evidence to connect the dots, so really...why brainwash when you can explain?

Show me the evidence that will prove that I evolved from a monkey. And also explain to me how a non intelligent force can design an ecosystem and a human brain?

Evidence not theories.

I have never seen any evidence to prove that I evolved, but you sounded very confident, so you show me. In fact the Bible says, that creation is the only proof that men will have and need that God does exist and so have no excuse not to believe.
How can a none intelligent thing create intelligently, the foolishness of that is and will be obvious to all.

quote Seeker X

Well everything works on a theory, I mean...we weren't there and there's no evidence to dictate anything so far. But we guess, we never assume we KNOW that this is THE ABSOLUTE ANSWER because that's what separates us from ignorance.

quote Game Wizard

you would still need something to create life that can function independently and think

Why? You're talking about Intelligent Design instead of being born with insticts. Why can't it be that we are born with insticts? Why does there have to be an "intelligent" creator? And if so, really the least the dude could've done was a system that was fair for everyone and didn't rely on a "dog eat dog" kind of thing, if he was merciful, of course.

quote Gaming Geezer

Most people believe in evolution just because somebody told them so.

I feel even more insulted with you saying such a thing. Dude, you would KILL people if some God told you to, and you're talking about Evolution "theory brainwashing"? AND we don't need to just tell them, we have tangible evidence to connect the dots, so really...why brainwash when you can explain?

But that's just it isn't it? We weren't there, nor was anyone else for the creation on the universe, we can make theories that *sound* logical, but no matter what odds may seem, no one is going to know for absolute assurance. When the evidence is gone, what reason is there to put down Christianity or any other religion for that matter?

I apologize but you'll have to enlighten me a little on what you mean. How is the system a "dog eat dog" style of life? That may be how we as humans have made society today, but that certainly isn't how God works. Also, I'm not denying we have instincts, but do simple, unicellular cells have them, the things we supposedly evolved from? Even if they for some reason did, I'm not saying that we weren't born with instincts, but is mere instincts what has let us "advance" (using the term very loosely) to where we are today?

Finally, I mean no offense to you, but it's slightly frustrating that everyone has the notion that God has commanded us to kill blatantly. No! That's why one has to read The Bible for understanding, and as a human I can only pray God will enlighten me on some of this, but I'm pretty confident that He means in The Bible, that those sinners DESERVE death and suffering in hell. HOWEVER, it is through Jesus Christ and repentence that we are saved from such a fate. Also, tangible evidence can be nice and all, but even if those pieces of evidence weren't flawed, it's an assumption, I guess you COULD call it an educated guess, to "connect the dots".


*By the way, no where in The Bible does it say the world was flat. A misinterpretation by Puritans or Catholics back in that time. It's not right to judge The Bible based on the bad actions of people.

So everything just formed the way it did randomly, that's illogical and more ridiculous then believing in intelligent design.

And what evidence, you mean theories.

quote Gaming Geezer

So everything just formed the way it did randomly, that's illogical and more ridiculous then believing in intelligent design.

And what evidence, you mean theories.

No not really. I ask you once more, do you believe that weaker things do not have a worse chance of reproducing then stronger things?

quote Super Me

Sure, I'll do my best to provide evidence, only if you can provide evidence of God outside of what the Bible says.

But I'll go ahead and address "How can a none intelligent thing create intelligently?"


Well, I'm not going to get too scientific but life did not just spontaneously pop up. Rather, the basic building blocks for simple life were created from chemical reactions. Many of these building blocks, like simple enzymes, acids ect did not "combine" into anything. However, over an immense amount of time, and more and more "ingredients" accumulated and eventually a very, very simple life form was formed. If anyone would like to scientifically fine-tune this statement, then go right ahead.

Are you implying that we, humans, are the combination of by chance, the right chemical reactions put together? If so, I don't see how we can even develop a thinking brain, or even trust our actions since we are chemical reactions. If not, my apologies.

Also, how can you say "provide evidence of God outside of what the Bible says." ? Shall I tell you to provide evidence outside of the rules and laws of science?