wildfire's posts in "(if you voted for obama) do you still think it was a good idea?" - Thinker's Lounge

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wildfire The Mourning Star (moderator) Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate wiki leader monsterhunter total posts: 1644 since: Aug 2011	Dec 04, 12 at 8:48am ^ re: (if you voted for obama) do you still think it was a good idea?
	Log in to remove this sponsored message quote Lazzara hat's what it's always been, though. Obama found it harder to do things because some of his plans are simply not sustainable. Could you blame the congress for trying to be fiscally responsible? lol. In a recession isn't it better for the government to increase spending and lower taxes? Being fiscally responsible should be a priority when the country and deal with. Consumer spending + business investments + Government spending + (X - M) = GDP ; Consumer spending accounts for 1/3 of GDP. The government lowers taxes to increase consumer spending, and starts spending more... There's a lot of other things that they can do. It was the Republicans who fought him to whole way. A government that doesn't do anything really isn't a very effective government, but who do they blame? Obama. It's his fault for everything. They blame him for excessive government spending when they've done it in the past (maybe not to his extent). Bush did spend a lot, but he's not as bad because he didn't spend as much? How's that logic? His budget still went over the line... In my opinion, Obama came to power wanting to accomplish something, but then the economy went bad. What do the people do when they start to loose their houses and big banks are on the verge of collapse? They look to the president for help. It's not the presidents fault that none of his plans got through in one piece or quickly enough he's only one part of the government, and I wish people would start to realize that. He can't instantly make laws that make life go away. Some people think that President Herbert Hoover would've been a great president if not for the Great depression. He was a no government Republican, and felt that the economy would've recovered on it's own. His inaction was his fault, and no one at the time or now doubts that. Obama on the other hand thinks he can help America, but the republican party is in the way. All that said, I probably would've voted for Obama. It does make me wonder though, what would america be like if Romney was elected. Who would you have voted for, Lazzara? ------------------- Read Retribution \| Monster hunter 3 U \| Thinker's Lounge
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wildfire The Mourning Star (moderator) Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate wiki leader monsterhunter total posts: 1644 since: Aug 2011	Dec 04, 12 at 11:37am ^ re: (if you voted for obama) do you still think it was a good idea?
	quote Lazzara yeah, that's automatic stabilizers. Not sure if srs >.> quote Lazzara but with fiscal cliff consumer wouldn't be able to spend as much (increasing tax), and investment wouldn't want to invest either. fiscal cliff also dictates that government spending will be lowered. since tax is increasing, price for goods and services would also be increasing. in turn, consumers would rather buy import goods, which means net export will be greater in negative thus lower GDP don't get me wrong, fiscal cliff is a great idea to lower debt... but when you add something like obamacare, then it's efficiency is debatable. And unfortunately not a good idea to implement when the economy is recovering. You're doing a really good job with your counterargument . Thanks, I'm trying to do a crash course in politics and it's helping a lot. I'm not going to pretend to know what the president's economic policy is . quote Lazzara government spending is needed. bush signed $700 billion bailout, so to blame Obama for the economic catastrophe is stupid. However, Obama's stimulus package promised to raise GDP and increase unemployment. But what happened was, while GDP was increasing, unemployment rate also went up. It's not really about how much did he spend where the problem lies, but more about where the money is distributed. Is that really what happened? It's probably due in part to employers having to cut losses before GDP went back up and while they were making money they had to compensate for the downturn. I know 'faith' can either be a blessing or curse. If people are afraid to spend more than they have too, the economy suffers. quote Lazzara Economy was bad before he took over. When banks are on the verge of collapse, government shouldn't really intervene if we're to rely on capitalism, if the banks had to die, then let them be. But we know that's not what happened. I'm not arguing against capitalism, and I agree with you. Obama was probably trying to advert disaster because banks who go bankrupt have a huge negative impact on a nation. Bank loans help to create money, and without banks and loans our economy couldn't get back up as quickly as people in America would like. Who would be to blame? The president for inaction. He was probably trying not to repeat history. The Great Depression began when the banks started closing and nobody could get their money (bank Runs; there was no FDIC back then either). quote Lazzara economy would've recovered on it's own is the essence of capitalism, though. republican party is in the way? of course they are, that's the point of checks and balances. would you rather greater budget deficit, greater debt, etc? and that's the point of democracy, you'd want to make sure that people's voices are heard. if republican wasn't on democrat's way, who are going to represent the voice of people who identify themselves as republicans? They won't compromise is what I mean, and in the mean time they bash the president every time they get a chance. They act a lot like children >.> . I suppose the democrats aren't any better.... quote Lazzara Romney offers better financial proposal, but his foreign policy and social issues are questionable at best. But surely economy should be the priority for now? Not over the next 4 years... Out of all the candidates for president, who was the best in your opinion? ------------------- Read Retribution \| Monster hunter 3 U \| Thinker's Lounge
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wildfire The Mourning Star (moderator) Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate wiki leader monsterhunter total posts: 1644 since: Aug 2011	Dec 04, 12 at 2:01pm ^ re: (if you voted for obama) do you still think it was a good idea?
	quote Lazzara huh? automatic stabilizers pretty much describes recession = cutting tax + more government spending (to increase overall spending and more transfer payment due to job cut) expansion = increasing tax + less government spending those are the things that will happen automatically without government's approval.not sure what you were implying there tbh Thought you were being sarcastic, sorry. quote Lazzara not sure where'd you get they won't compromise? it might take a while, but american government is relatively quick when it comes to making a decision. there's a case of filibuster here and there, but both democrats and republicans eventually come to an agreement. Apparently not quick enough. From what I've been hearing they've been battling in washington; arguing about things that Obama started talking about in his first term. quote Lazzara i think the bank bail out was signed by Bush, obama eventually reduced it to $400 billion when he took over. Bank loans create money, yes. But keep in mind that the bailout also exaggerates the nation's debt. If it wasn't because of fiscal cliff, your national debt will reach 90% of your GDP by 2025. So he's in a pickle, really. It's either increasing taxes + decreasing government spending (effectively stunting economic growth) or choose not to change anything but national debt will only get severe. I heard something funny about nations and debt. 'No nation has ever paid off it's debt.' <- don't remember who said it but it's true. I've often wondered, when did America start to pay more than it earned? Any business man knows that's no way to run a company, and it certainly no way to run a country. But now that we've dug this hole who has to suffer for it? It's obvious that a fiscal cliff is the best option, but the American people don't see it as their fault. There's a severe disconnect between the government and it's people. How do you as a leader tell people that we (as the government) made a mistake and now you(as a citizen) have to fix it by giving us money to pay it off? You simply can't tell anyone that.... ------------------- Read Retribution \| Monster hunter 3 U \| Thinker's Lounge
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wildfire The Mourning Star (moderator) Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate wiki leader monsterhunter total posts: 1644 since: Aug 2011	Dec 10, 12 at 10:42am ^ re: (if you voted for obama) do you still think it was a good idea?
	quote Lazzara that is kinda the essence of democracy, though. you chose the leaders, so if they messed up, then it'd be partly your fault. Recession happens every now and then, but bush/obama were unfortunate to experience recession coupled with global financial woes. Most Americans couldn't even tell you what a democracy is ... In fact I once knew a guy who didn't know that we're a democratic/republic. How do you choose the right leader when all they do is mudsling? I kinda wish that, instead of destroying the other credibility, that they actually argue more for the issues at hand. Most commercials that are 'approved' by the opposing party simply makes the other look bad, and then the news groups who are controlled by these political parties do generally the same. This is what the majority base their votes around, not what the actual debates say. quote Misty I'd take Romney over Obama by a slight margin, but really it's a very close margin of who I dislike less. I wrote in Ron Paul on my ballot; I couldn't stomach voting for either Obama or Romney. That's so funny! I like how you said 'a very close margin of who I dislike less,' . Was there ever a time when Americans could choose the better candidate? Candidates aren't chosen by the people, they're chosen by the parties and then they get on the ballot. I wonder if that Ron Paul vote was even counted >.> because constitutionally anyone can run for president even if his political party was no longer backing him. ------------------- Read Retribution \| Monster hunter 3 U \| Thinker's Lounge
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