Explaining Death

It's like sleeping, but it lasts forever and you don't dream.

You were born once. Since the dawn of time you were not alive, until somehow you came into existence. The idea that by being a sentient being you create a false sense of consciousness and spirituality could be true, but my inability to permeate between multiple bodies, my continual entrapment within this body since the day I was born makes that concept very hard to believe. Solipsism is also very improbable. I personally do not believe in spirits, or souls, at least not without some sort of scientific explanation. However, the fact still remains that we were all dead before we were born, and that after you die, well, it could very easily be the nothingness that was. And as the laws of the physical world suggest, if it can happen once, it can and will happen again. I can't say we have lived and died many times as whatever living or non-living entities we may have "manifested", but I can certainly assure you that we will all live and die many times, for to say otherwise would be illogical and unscientific. Our memories are limited to what our minds can hold on to. Our memories are not spiritual, and therefor every memory of your life will be gone when your brain decomposes or is cremated in a furnace. We will all be reborn, someday, eventually, as any asortment of living creatures, intelligent, microscopic, or downright ugly or strange, on this planet, or another, for life is and has always been a matter of science. And what happens once can happen a billion times again.

Just be glad that this time you were born as a species, for all I know probably the only species in the entire Universe that can actually discuss and philosophize about the meaning of life, rather than living and dying as a mere link in the chain of evolution and a species continuity. You have an opportunity to indulge in this conversation, and experience the grandness of the Universe as spectator of the greatest story ever told.

As to why life exists? Why does the sun exist, why are all things spherical, why do objects orbit around one another, why is the Universe so empty and spaceous? Why is anything, anything? It just is, and it just does, because that's just the way the Universe is. There is no meaning behind it, and is just one of the many simple facts of our Universe. Your empathy for life and your own belief in a greater purpose is a construct of your own mind, your own biological interests. By being above it all, in the sense that you are an observer, and not a contributor, you will become a higher member of the living Universe. Just enjoy it while it lasts, because this opportunity to be human is an absolute unfathomable unlikelihood, and I can damn well assure you that this will be your last. Being human is the most amazing experience you will likely ever experience.

^ And the weird part is, my understanding of the Bible is that there isn't any reference to the fire-and-brimstone Hell that dominates the vast majority of Christian belief. Dante you old dog.

Without wanting to turn this too much into a thread about religion (although it kinda is...), death's inevitable, and its explanation will surely be one of the hardest things for a parent to discuss with their kids. Usually a pet goes first, and then we even get Christian beliefs twisted into ideas about 'Doggie Heaven' to try to ease the pain the kid experiences. But KR_1250s right, even though I hold religious beliefs, the honest - and therefore best - answer to give is 'I don't know'. As tempting as it might be to get your kid to stop crying by promising them that Fido's in a better place, it can only be damaging in the long term to try to indoctrinate them. People should only ever find religion because they go looking for it.

By the same token, telling them 'Grannie's lying six feet under with the worms, and nothing you can do will ever bring her back' isn't going to help much either. Nor is telling them there's no afterlife. Atheists don't know any more than theists about what happens after you die. I guess it provides a decent opportunity to make the kid aware of all the different beliefs, though?

quote Praetorian_Lord

^ And the weird part is, my understanding of the Bible is that there isn't any reference to the fire-and-brimstone Hell that dominates the vast majority of Christian belief. Dante you old dog.

Yeah, strange that. Try explaining that to a hardcore believer though.

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Atheists don't know any more than theists about what happens after you die. I guess it provides a decent opportunity to make the kid aware of all the different beliefs, though?

Agree'd. Though i have to admit when teaching kids about different belief systems i would struggle to keep opinion out of it. I would have to explain to them that my opinion was just that. Not a fact.

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Atheists may not know more then theists but at least their idea of what happens once you die makes logical and rational sense. The brain is the source of all the senses: without it you cannot feel smell, taste, touch, or see anything. When you're sleeping, there's very little brain activity, hence why you don't react to stimuli that well and why you can't ponder. One can only assume that when there is no brain activity (ie the person is DEAD), they cannot sense anything. And when you cannot sense anything, you become "non-existent."

No doubt, but that isn't to say it's correct. Indoctrinating them in to atheism isn't any more responsible than indoctrinating them into theism. It should be their choice, and the parent's responsibility is to make them aware of the different viewpoints, not to tell them which one's the best.

quote Praetorian_Lord

No doubt, but that isn't to say it's correct. Indoctrinating them in to atheism isn't any more responsible than indoctrinating them into theism. It should be their choice, and the parent's responsibility is to make them aware of the different viewpoints, not to tell them which one's the best.

Absolutely agree'd.

If im honest i would hope any kids i had would come out atheist, but i'd let them make their own journey through the minefield of faith and belief. Ofcourse i'd be honest about my atheeism if they asked, but i'd let them know they are free to believe what they decide to.

And i hear what you are saying Ben73

Sure you cannot tell a 4 year old that their deceased gran is now a worm bag, but my argument is that we should say we dont know becuase the alternative is just as bad. "Nanna is in heaven with god, and all the bad people are being torured forever"

Not only is that cruel, but its a lie. Just tell kids you dont know and be honest. Kids are tough lil' buggers. Alot of adults think they are protecting kids by sugar coating things, but it just comes back to haunt them later in life.

My exposure to religious arguments on death as a child are a bordeline mental illness now.

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The brain is the source of all the senses: without it you cannot feel smell, taste, touch, or see anything. When you're sleeping, there's very little brain activity, hence why you don't react to stimuli that well and why you can't ponder. One can only assume that when there is no brain activity (ie the person is DEAD), they cannot sense anything. And when you cannot sense anything, you become "non-existent."

There is growing scientific evidence that refutes that claim. And if we are really going to be honest to our children, we should at least give them the opportunity to investigate, read and research these claims, rather then just blatantly telling them the brain is all there is. Of course this is only appropriate to older children, probably 10+, depending on the child. I wouldn't expect a normal 4 or even 6 year old to shift through scientific literature.

The idea of an after I don't think is damaging to a child. Parents have a responsibility to filter the world and present information in a manner they can understand. Some parents are guilty of filtering too much, possibly inadvertently trying to protect their child, or possibly ignorantly. But parents are tasked with the responsibility to present hard concepts in ways that a child can understand so they can process the world in a healthy manner. And at 4 years of age or 5 years of age, an after life concept can be very comforting. Will it harm them later in life? I have no reason to believe it would harm them any more then Santa Clause or Easter bunny, or the tooth fairy leaving them $1 for their tooth.

Can anyone present any study from a peer reviewed journal that demonstrates any harm to a young child like 3 or 4 or 5 by telling them of eternal bliss? Here is some information for a read about children going through stages of understanding about death. interesting read.

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Other problems can arise from children’s misconceptions about death. Dr. R. Fulton, in Grollman’s Explaining Death to Children, points out that some children confuse death with sleep, particularly if they hear adults refer to death with one of the many euphemisms for sleep - “eternal rest”, “rest in peace.”

As a result of the confusion, a child may become afraid of going to bed or of taking naps. Grandma went “to sleep” and hasn’t gotten up yet. Maybe I won’t wake up either.

Similarly, if children are told that someone who died “went away”, brief separations may begin to worry them. Grandpa “went away” and hasn’t come back yet. Maybe Mummy won’t come back from the shops or from work. Therefore, it is important to avoid such words as “sleep”, “rest”, or “went away” when talking to a child about death.