The Ultimate Intellectual Challenge

Suppose you are put into a position where someone offers you $100,000,000 if you successfully commit a murder without being convicted. Suppose, even further, that you are an intelligent individual and realize that accomplishing such a feat means more than the money awarded to you. You realize that to commit the most heinous act, as judged by the immortal beast, Society, forever separates you from the flock.

By murdering a member of the flock you are no longer a sheep, but a lion. And should the lion be capable of defeating that beastly shepherd, the lion will erase the old laws and carve out a new world in his own image. It takes a god to tear down the brick and steel of the sociological construct that has wormed its way into our brains before we were even capable of independent thought - and its influence assures we never reach that stage of development. To commit the most reviled act you reject the rules that have been thrust upon you. To evade capture is to find the evidence that you are worthy of the title 'lion,' and are fit to rewrite life as others know it.

A successful murder requires significant strengths. One must have the sharp intellect to design a plan that approaches infallible. One must have the strong heart to kill his empathy, maintain composure while carrying out the plan, and deal with the outrage of Society. One must have the working wit to adjust to new information. One must have the enlightenment to understand the transcendent significance of the act. And most importantly, one must not commit the murder to serve baser emotions - such an act is the behavior of an undeveloped animal, not a god - but to serve the ultimate goal of a new world.

Treat this as a thought exercise - your goal is to put forth the best plan. Spare no detail, as everything is important (for example, if you decide it is a worthwhile investment to take the body with you and dispose of it elsewhere, it is quite relevant to mention that you should search the body for anything that could potentially carry a GPS device and destroy it).

I will put forth two main categories that you should fill in:

The Murder (this would include target, choosing a location, weapon, anything that leads up to and includes the act/method of killing)

The Cleanup (this would include disposal of a body - or lack thereof - , and any actions taken to decrease the likelihood of being discovered)

Feel free to add an 'Other' section that includes anything you don't feel would fit into the above categories.

Do remember that nothing ever goes according to plan. Take this into account when formulating your answer - focus on the ability to realistically carry out what you put down, not a perfect-world situation.

Cliffs: Your goal is to get away with murder. How would you go about this?






Please note that this should be considered a thought exercise. Murder is a terrible thing to do. Think of the children. The children.

I personally find home invasion to be quite risky as you do not control the environment. In order to feel comfortable doing such a thing I would need to have been doing surveillance on the household for awhile, which also runs the risk of witnesses mentioning you.

Security cameras are not uncommon in neighborhoods these days either - say you break into someone's house (or gain entry), strangle them, and leave... the body will give time of death, investigators will do their typical door-knocking of the neighborhood, and there is a decent chance you're on camera at some point.

You want to control as much of the situation as possible, I don't like home invasion type stuff for that reason. If you were careful and did surveillance beforehand on foot (maybe under the guise of walking your dog around the neighborhood) you might be able to pull off a random strangling outside at night in the right location.


Also, kind of ridiculous whoever reported this. 12 year olds -_-

To be entirely honest, the only fool-proof way of doing all this is to have inside knowledge of the police system.

I also feel incredibly uncomfortable actually writing this whole thing down. Even if 95% of it is from Dexter, which I've been watching for the past week, and it's just me fleshing out how it would be possible for a civilian to do. I also am adamant that when it came to do ANYTHING of the sort of shit I say, I'd fail and be unable to go through with it. I'm waaaay too moral for it.

We all like to think we know through TV shows like NCIS, CSI, etc. but things are omitted in those shows. This is also made a lot harder by the fact we don't have access to police records, etc.


Now, I've sat down and brain-stormed about this for about 10-15 minutes, and I probably have forgotten things, but still. I'll give it a go. A lot of this is based on the TV show Dexter, slightly modified.


In order to kill a man, I'd have to stake him out, and buy a boat (over a year before the deed). I'd learn as much as humanly possible about him without drawing any sort of connections to me.


I make three trips. First is to where he works, how he interacts with co-workers, and who those co-workers are. Second trip is to his house, and watch what time he comes and goes. Third is to his recreational activity. Throughout all three of these places I'd make a note of who he talks to (names), his mannerisms, and anything unusual about him. I also drive a different car each time and wear different clothing, an assortment of hats, beard styles etc. The key is to not to stick out, and not be memorable. All of this will take place over a 4-5 months.

What's important is to find an exit strategy for him. Everyone has secrets, and if he's in debt, is linked to the wrong people, is suspected of cheating on his wife etc. there's probable cause of his disappearance. Because his body won't be found. If I find nothing, the entire thing is off and I start from scratch with someone different. A reason for his disappearance is crucial.

Next is a fake ID. Then, a fake library card, then access to the internet in the library over an hour away from my house. I google his family, him, co-workers, friends and find out as much as humanly possible about him.

By this stage, I know his habits, where he goes, who he's linked to. Next is to buy sheets of plastic, duct-tape, and a diving knife and create a completely controlled, sterile environment where I won't be interrupted, where people won't go, but will not think twice about someone else going.

Each thing I purchase is from a different place, spread out, and months apart, in order to not arise suspicion.


Next is the kill. I catch him while alone after a hard day at work or after sport, arriving at home at night, while I wait in his house after entering through a non-conspicuous point and wait for him to drop his guard completely and take a beer from the fridge, or a soft-drink to relax. I drop a few tablets of rohypnol into his drink I got from a drug dealer in the bad part of town.

Wait for him to drop then transport him to the sterile kill-room, in his car at the time he's meant to leave for work.

I tie him down with duct-tape backed with plastic, stab him, cut him up with the same knife I killed him with and put him in garbage bags.

I then transport him to my charter boat at night, under cover of darkness, after messing with the wiring to the lights there months before. I travel out off the coast, over the erratic East Australian Current and drop his the body parts into it, spreading them all over the Tasman Sea.



That's it really, anyone else feel free to tell me loop-holes. I'm sure there are a shitload. I also feel incredibly uncomfortable actually writing this whole thing down. Even if 95% of it is from Dexter, which I've been watching for the past week, and it's just me fleshing out how it would be possible for a civilan to do.

do i have real connection to the target? it'd be much easier if i didn't have any real ties, imo.

home invasion has too much risk, because it'll be the first place the cops are looking for clues and leads. people die due to freak accidents all the time, and i think it'd be slightly attainable to cause an 'accident' rather than to do it the old school way.

it's probably the best if you find out about his/ her routine. it might take a while, but better safe than sorry. this is a bold step, but you can always be the target's acquaintance at some point. it's mind boggling how people trust others so easy. but make sure that none of his/ her friends know who you are, because it'd be such a massive *bleep* up if someone recognized your features.

it's also a good idea to prepare a place to do the execution, i think a lot of people often forgot that it's so easy to retrieve clues if you were to do it anywhere near the target's living space. but i reckon you could get away with murdering someone in the woods. obv its probably best to kill him/ her before you get into the woods. there are a lot of ways to kill people, but i suppose something that involves attainable chemical would be a better idea than strangling them (dunno how easy it is to trace back the evidence if there was no finger print/ etc).

drowning shout isn't a bad idea, imo. choloroform the shit out of the target, then attached him with a fukin heavy rock and just let the nature do the work.

are they meant to know that we killed them? because obv it'd be a risk if you'd let someone to know that you killed a person. if we didn't have to, then make sure we'd cut off their hands/ feet and head because i reckon those three features are the best to identify a person.

the method? idk, id probably just go to three different pig farms (each for feet, hands and head) and get rid of the evidence Snatch style.


i better be calm, though. you tend to *bleep* up when you're in panic mode, so you don't want that to happen.

and i'm assuming it's just one time thing? can't risk to do it a couple of times, better to quit while youre ahead. people like ted bundy would've not gotten caught if he stopped after killing a few people. but i suppose killing is an addiction, i don't think you'll ever be able to just stop killing once.

First off i would like to say i have been thinking on this subject for years and how to get off with it (whilst avoiding police attention).

For any murder I would start off choosing a safe location to dispose of evidence. More than likely I would purchase a boat and sail where no one can see or hear anything I am doing. I would also insure my boat so I could get compensation for it after I hired someone to destroy it. This would be well over 2 or 3 years before I commited the act.Next I would choose a target more than likely a simple druggie that owes alot of cash to a loan shark,mafia,drug dealers etc etc.Then I would choose my method of killing this individual and where to commit the act. I would probably choose a length of rope or cord to strangle said target with as it leaves no blood. I would also kill them outside of their home as it is hard not to leave evidence in someones home.After killing them I would put their body in said boat that I had purchased under the shade of night along with getting an empty oil barrel to burn the body. I would also burn anything that I wore during the act aswell as shoes socks underwear EVERYTHING. Besides a clean pair of clothes on the boat. After sailing out into the middle fo the ocean. (no less than 30 miles off of the shoreline) I would burn the body my clothes the weapon I used everything. In the oil barrel I mentioned earlier. Until it was only ashes then I would dump the ashes into the ocean (whilst spreading it out over 3 or 4 miles to spread the evidence out so it is extremely diluted by ocean water) I would then drive another 5 or 6 miles offshore and dump the barrel into the ocean. (At this point it is more than likely to simply fall into a rift that is miles deep.) Then after doing all this I would wait a few months then hire a gangster to hijack the boat and keep it thus eliminating the last piece of the puzzle that was the murder.

This took a long time to type and to think over of course it would take me a VERY long time to complete the crime but I would earn my money.

quote MrApples

Bit of a disturbing thread

Pretty sure very few of these ideas are original, and meditated upon.

Hell, 95% of my post is from the first few seasons of Dexter.

I will contribute what I have been obsessing over for the past 6 months or so.

General Prep: Wax off all of my body hair, including scalp. Dark, non-fibrous clothing. Covered nose and mouth to prevent saliva from transferring. Leather gloves (I've heard latex can, if you're unfortunate, leave a print due to how thing the material is; leather will also prevent bruising on your hands from the garrote). Shoes will be multiple sizes larger than my own since there is always the possibility of leaving a footprint.

Will find an app to track my phone with GPS, having been using it for months beforehand. On the night of the kill it will be sitting at home. Likely won't even matter, but can provide a soft alibi if things go terribly wrong. Will bring a cash-paid burner phone in case of emergency.

Acquire and prepare a location to burn clothes, weapon, plastic. Clear out space in a freezer. Make sure I have the proper tools for cutting up a human body. Make sure I have a large amount of plastic sheeting, a contraption to hang the body from, a plastic tub, tons of bleach, and the equivalent of a surgical table.

Take steps to temporarily modify the tread of my tires. Cover the inside of the car trunk in plastic sheeting. Cover the inside of the vehicle in plastic sheeting. Disable inside car lights and trunk light.

Purchase human replica dolls to practice application of garrote so that it goes smoothly during the crime.

If you are not already in good physical shape, get in good physical shape. If it comes down to regular hand to hand combat, you want to be able to win and get away.

Choose a different neighborhood than the murder and learn the trash pickup schedule. You want to find one that gets hit first thing in the morning, and you want to find several locations in that area that will be obscured from observers and potential security cameras. This comes into play later; ocean isn't an option for me and digging a grave is brutal.

Scene of the Crime:Scout for an area that is secluded, has no street lights, and obstructed view from any potential security cameras. You should have the ability to see people coming and going, but they would have difficulty doing the same from their location. Likely a residential area in the outskirts of the suburbs. Parking should be very close. The idea is that someone could go for a late night walk and disappear. Ideally the surface would be pavement to prevent dirt transfer and muddy footprints. Scouting would be done while walking a dog. A person walking a dog is something that will never look out of place. Make sure any activities where people might see you are done while you still have hair. Attacking during rain is always helpful as it obscures your noises and removes any evidence.

The Actual Murder: Weapon will be a rope garrote, of thickness so that it will not accidentally cut the victim's neck yet will still be difficult to grab. No blood. Time of day will be late at night. Lie in wait until a small/elderly individual comes by with nobody else in sight. Either ambush or act injured, end result being you get them off guard with a rope around their neck. Proper use of the garrote should result in a crushed neck quite quickly. For obvious reasons, avoid individuals with large dogs. If an individual has a small dog, realize that you will be forced to kill it as well. Destroy victim's cell phone, but keep it with you. Once your kill is complete, do a double check for potential witnesses and move the body to your car trunk. If you chose a small victim like you were suppose to, it should be very manageable to transport them quickly.

Cleanup:Drive the body to your chosen location. The good news is that at this point, assuming nobody saw you commit the crime, you are pretty much invincible. With no body there will be a time delay before the police get involved, which gives you the time necessary to comfortably deal with the body.

Put the victim's personal items into a bag. This is going to get dumped along with the body.

Cover the floor (probably of a garage or basement) with plastic sheeting. Your ceiling should be covered as well (everyone always forgets that splatter hits the ceiling!). Build an artificial room out of more sheeting (a la Dexter). Hang the body with the head toward the ground, above your plastic tub. Slit the throat and allow it some time to drain of fluid. Decomp will be slower with minimal blood.

While you wait you can deal with burning everything you've touched tonight - clothes, shoes, used plastic, your garrote, etc. Return your tire tread to its normal state. Steam clean and then cover the vehicle with more sheeting. Make sure you are still wearing gloves (a second pair) throughout the whole process.

Once the body has drained, put it into your 'operating' table. CLEAN UNDER THE FINGER NAILS! Make sure there is none of your DNA from your victim attempting to fight back. You will likely require some kind of bone saw to chop the body into multiple parts - the joints are weaker and will be easier to cut through. For each completed piece, double trash bag it and put it in the freezer (which is also covered with plastic sheeting). Freezing the body allows you to mess with the timeline so they don't know exactly when the person was killed. It will also be important that the body doesn't start to smell.

While waiting for it to freeze you can dispose of all of the sheeting into the flame, change gloves again, etc etc. Pretty much get rid of any easily disposed of evidence. You can probably get away with dumping the blood down a sink (remove the drain) and following it up with heavy bleach, water, more bleach. Clean the plastic tub out and burn it as well (make sure you're not inhaling all of the plastic fumes, btw). Take a second tub and fill it with bleach. Soak any tool you used on the body in it.

Clean the floor, ceiling, walls, etc with bleach. Pay special attention to any cracks. If you have the materials to test for the presence of blood, give yourself a checkup.

At this point you should have:

-A collection of bagged body parts in your freezer
-Whatever surgical tools you used in a bleach bath
-A bag of the victim's items (their clothes burnt)
-A barrel full of burnt shit

You are going to throw away every single last one of your expensive tools. But before you do that, you are going to beat the shit out of them so their blades will not be matched to any marks on the body. Go overboard on destroying them. Toss these in a dumpster somewhere - with no evidence they were used in a murder and nothing to tie them to you, they can't hurt you even if discovered. That's if the person who finds them even considers they might have been used to dispose of a body.

You are going to go through the painstaking process of scooping out the ashes of the barrel to search for anything that might not have burnt or would lead to you. Throw as much as you can in a trash bag, wash out the barrel with bleach (can't hurt!) and water. Nobody's going to care if you throw a bag of ashes out in the trash.

When it comes to the victim's items and the body, you are going to have to expose yourself once more for the final disposal. Take another garbage bag, put the body part bag inside of it, and fill it with trash (NOT YOUR OWN TRASH!!!). Remember those residential garbage bin locations you figured out? It's very simple - take a body part bag, put it under the trash bag already in the bin, and repeat. Since they will be taken first thing in the morning and you will be putting them there at night, nobody should ever notice. That the body parts are frozen will prevent any unfortunate odor from alerting the owner of the bin. And if anyone looks at the new bag in their bin, they will just see regular trash and won't be willing to sort through it to find anything worse. The trash collection will come, your stuff will end up at the dump, and the body will be discovered some far off day later. If at all. It will likely be impossible for them to figure out where and when the body was actually dumped.

You can dispose of the victim's items the same way if you wish, or just bury them out in the middle of nowhere.

Your two points of exposure are during the kill and with the final disposal. The disposal should be pretty safe. Nothing that a person could discover should be able to lead back to you, and barring a great eyewitness or security footage it should be impossible for there to even be probably cause for a warrant served on your property (the investigators likely won't even know you exist). Because they will likely never even get a warrant, your cleanup job back at the house will hopefully never even be tested. And if they do end up searching around it is inconceivable that it would be before you've disposed of the body and cleaned up - nothing will point to you.

At this point just burn whatever is left and repeat the barrel cleaning. I may have forgot some things or made some apparent errors, feel free to point them out. There are such an amazing number of things to take into account.





There's also the problem that if I ever did decide to do this I would require media attention and notoriety. I'm borderline narcissistic personality disorder and a large part of the motivation would be scaring people and having them live in fear of me. Knowing there's an FBI task force working my kills and knowing that they aren't good enough to know so much as my name, let alone prove anything. I think that area is the downfall of most serial killers (or just plain bad luck - if you do something enough times, something will go wrong -), assuming they don't descend into sloppiness.

quote Misty

A silenced weapon wouldn't be any good either. Firstly, because silencers don't truly silence the weapon; even if it did they are then looking for what is likely to be a silenced/suppressed weapon on the grounds that a gunshot wasn't heard, so it'd potentially be easier to identify the weapon (especially when you consider how sophisticated weapons with actual silencers on them are - they're not just something you screw on the end of the barrel like in movies). There's also traces left in the form of the possibility of fingerprints or DNA on the bullets from handling them, and lack of rifling marks would point toward a smooth-bore weapon which would also make identification of the weapon easier once it was found as rifles with perfectly smooth bores aren't exactly easy to come by. Uniqueness is a marker for identification. I don't think a gun would be the weapon of choice, anyway.

Oh I'm aware a "silencer" doesn't make a bullet truly silent, but it would certainly help especially if you used a subsonic .22 bullet.



That's quiet enough for me.

Only a moron would handle the bullets without gloves and wiping them off.

And the rifling marks wouldn't be a problem.

I said swap out the gun barrel. You don't KEEP the smooth barrel installed. You throw it out and/or destroy it.

Chuck it out at the rubbish tip or something like that. It would look like a bit of metal pipe.

Oh and I meant a pistol, not a rifle.


Tell you what though, I'd give bonus points to anyone who took out a paedophile with this: