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TerraAbuser threadnought total posts: 619 since: Aug 2011	Oct 17, 11 at 10:19pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	Log in to remove this advertisement @ Mastix and Silverboner: Sorry to butt in but: This "mind of God" you two are speaking about, it is completly knowable, through the Holy Spirit. God has a "higher consiousness." "Spirit" is just another word for consiousness. "Holy" means belonging to God or "higher." Therefore if we believe in God, Jesus and have asked AND recieved the Holy Spirit from God (which we all ought to do) then we most certianly know the mind of God. But, I tell you, the Bible is quite clear, God created all of creation, including man. Nothing was made that he did not make with his own two hands. If you believe in God and believe the Bible is his word, but do not believe this... you are pretty much calling God a liar. :/ Edit: Oct 17, 11 4:02pm
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silverboner Bored Resident Neo total posts: 2726 since: Dec 2005	Oct 17, 11 at 10:20pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	quote DG But if those people were only "evil" because someone told them that god (Moloch) was evil and would destroy them unless those sacrifices were made, would that really make them evil? Yes. You think saving other children by killing one is a good excuse for killing children? You think WHY they did evil changes the fact that they committed atrocities? quote DG But an omniscient, omnipotent being bloody well could. By definition he would be the ultimate negotiator. You under-estimate free will. Nobody has to believe anything anyone says, even if it was an omnipotent being talking. quote DG In fact, all he had to do was wipe the knowledge of Moloch / Baal / other gods from the minds of these people. And possibly destroy their priests. Then let them come to their own conclusions. The only way would be to eliminate free will, and if you are going to do that, why gift it to humans to begin with? That is the one constraint God doesn't mess with, your ability to choose. quote DG To convince someone of power of a supernatural being, the best way is to demonstrate that power. you mean like wiping out a few cities? You think it only needed to happen once wouldn't you? But even your reasoning contradicts recorded history. If a display of power is all that is needed, surely God would have only needed to wipe out one city, and everyone else would have conformed right? Is that what happened? Nope. ------------------- Evil necessitates God. Do you know what is so important about the number 447,225,917,218,507,401,284,016mg/cc??? Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.
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TerraAbuser threadnought total posts: 619 since: Aug 2011	Oct 17, 11 at 10:27pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	@ DG: God refuses to effect free will, which he created, in anyway, shape or form. Also, God needs/desires our faith, which is another word for trust. If he reveals himself we cannot trust that he exists, because we will know for certian.
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D-G BANG CruisiN' total posts: 22214 since: Mar 2003	Oct 17, 11 at 10:32pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	quote Silverboner Yes. You think saving other children by killing one is a good excuse for killing children? You think WHY they did evil changes the fact that they committed atrocities? Yep. If you were put in a situation where a psychopath would kill 100000 children unless you killed ONE child, what would YOU do? You either have one death on your conscience, or all of them. It's the same situation. Only in this case the psychopath is a deity/demon with presumably nearly unlimited power. quote Silverboner You under-estimate free will. Nobody has to believe anything anyone says, even if it was an omnipotent being talking. No? Would you disbelieve a 100 foot high glowing god who personally manifested in front of you and did some miracles for you? Even I would believe in him if he did that. Once I'd checked for holographic projectors etc. first, of course. Or checked he was solid. quote Silverboner The only way would be to eliminate free will, and if you are going to do that, why gift it to humans to begin with? That is the one constraint God doesn't mess with, your ability to choose. No, that's nothing to do with free will. I said delete the knowledge of the evil false god / demon. Then let them do what they want. If they somehow end up doing evil again then by all means wipe them out. But he should have tried first. quote Silverboner you mean like wiping out a few cities? You think it only needed to happen once wouldn't you? But even your reasoning contradicts recorded history. If a display of power is all that is needed, surely God would have only needed to wipe out one city, and everyone else would have conformed right? Is that what happened? Nope. Firstly, you're assuming that the "god destroying cities" happened as the Bible said it happened. If it was done by volcanic eruption, for example, the people of the city who survived (if any) may have realised what it was, and not attributed it to YHWH's actions. What happened to Lot's Wife does sound a bit like someone getting caught in a blast of white hot ash. If god personally showed up as a giant figure which could be easily recognised, and started throwing bolts of flame at the city, they'd certainly take notice then. And of course, if there were NO survivors, then there would be no-one to warn the other cities of the consequences of whatever they were doing. -------------------
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ChiroVette Come back to us, Susan. We miss you! (supermod) Wrestling total posts: 43151 since: Mar 2002	Oct 17, 11 at 10:39pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	Guys, this is NOT a debate thread for Christianity, atheism, free will, or the personality and predilection for vengeance of Jehovah. It is specifically about the OP being tired of the bad feelings between some Christians and some atheists. Please get back on topic. -------------------
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Distortion Fall through the ice, into my eyes True Addiction total posts: 19387 neopoints: 174 GameGrep pts: 150 since: Mar 2004	Oct 17, 11 at 11:30pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	Well, the way I see it Christians and atheists, when pressed about their faith or lack thereof respectively, will never get along. Each side adamantly believes they are right and will not budge in the face of whatever arguments, logical or otherwise, are thrown at them. ------------------- ~You promised to return to me. And I believed.~
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XxSkelterXx “Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum. Permanently Plugged In total posts: 13294 since: Aug 2010	Oct 18, 11 at 12:18am ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	Ya I guess, but I would be one prick of a God. I would expect worship and nothing else. Anyway, I can see how to the simplistic mind, being here is all the evidence they would ever need to believe in God, and I think that's why Christians and Atheists never get along. Christian's see us as brainwashed idiots that can't see what they call truth, even if it's right in front of us. And us Atheists can't believe that in the year 2011, people still believe in Magic.
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ChiroVette Come back to us, Susan. We miss you! (supermod) Wrestling total posts: 43151 since: Mar 2002	Oct 18, 11 at 1:02am ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	Guys, I asked nice. Please keep this one on topic. I deleted a bunch of off topic arguments, so let's knock it off. -------------------
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Slacker THE DAZZLER! Legendary Seeker since: Feb 2002	Oct 18, 11 at 3:13pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	The problem arises when someone tries to force their beliefs on others. When it comes to religion, most people don't have a gray area. It's very black-and-white. If you're a Christian, you believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins. If anyone tries to convince you of anything different, they're wrong. There is no room for compromise, there is no room for debate, it either is or isn't. That is why I personally see religion as such a dangerous thing. People will fight to the death over something neither side can prove. What is the point in arguing with people that have zero will to listen or compromise? Isn't the definition of insanity trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? My point is that we should stop interfering with each other's religions. Keep it personal, do whatever you want, but don't try and convince others that your way is the only right way. It's insulting and people get defensive and that's how arguments (and genocides) start. No one wants to admit that they may be bleeping themselves for an eternity. I know Christians are called to "witness" and convert people, but you guys will get a lot more support if you cut that shit out. Look at the Inquisition, people had to be threatened with torture and death and even then most still didn't want to convert. Your religion is your religion, keep it to yourself. Same goes for your lack of religion. Being condescending and arrogant about what other people base their entire lives around doesn't make you right, it just makes you an asshole. ------------------- People who get up early in the morning cause war, death and famine.
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Wo Daddy Wo Neo or Bust total posts: 7652 since: Feb 2003	Oct 19, 11 at 12:54pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	quote Slacker When it comes to religion, most people don't have a gray area. It's very black-and-white. Agnosticism ------------------- Membership has its privileges. Do you have what it takes?
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Slacker THE DAZZLER! Legendary Seeker since: Feb 2002	Oct 19, 11 at 8:25pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	I meant most religious people. I should've clarified that. When it comes to many Christians though, regardless of the questions they may have internally, on the outside it's very black-and-white. Even verbalizing something that is remotely close to doubting the bible is heresy. ------------------- People who get up early in the morning cause war, death and famine.
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AnonymousGuy Pastamancing like a pro Neolithic total posts: 6420 since: Nov 2005	Oct 20, 11 at 5:01pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	quote Wo Daddy Wo quote Slacker When it comes to religion, most people don't have a gray area. It's very black-and-white. Agnosticism I think you mean weak atheism Wo Daddy Wo. Ok I'm sorry that won't happen again. ------------------- Stoop kid's afraid to leave his stoop.
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D-G BANG CruisiN' total posts: 22214 since: Mar 2003	Oct 20, 11 at 11:41pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/16/t1690604-some-christians-think-all-non-christians-damned/ Wo Daddy Wo said to continue the discussions from the other threads in this one, so here's a link to the other thread I created. The question was basically why (some?) Christians think that someone who is morally perfect but not a Christian is going to be going to hell, while a morally dubious Christian who repents will go to Heaven. Basically, while I agree that repenting / feeling sorry for having done something bad is a good thing, I don't see why that repenting should be religious in nature. If I, an atheist, hit someone in the face, then felt bad about it and apologised, how is that any less valid than if a Christian did it and then repented? Edit: Oct 20, 11 4:58pm -------------------
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Wo Daddy Wo Neo or Bust total posts: 7652 since: Feb 2003	Oct 20, 11 at 11:55pm ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	Yes, if you guys need a place to vent than we'll use this thread. Try your best to keep things civil and somewhat respectful. ------------------- Membership has its privileges. Do you have what it takes?
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Mastix First Prophet of Capturism heilKeima o/ (moderator) Anime since: May 2004	Oct 21, 11 at 12:04am ^ re: is anyone tired of this atheists and Christians hatred for each other?
	DG, to play devil's advocate for a moment, I think the word repent in this case is different and more strict in definition than mere remorse. To repent is to be remorseful of sin, and is religious in nature. In order to repent you need to ask forgiveness from God for having committed sin. While remorse is merely feeling bad. The dictionary will agree with me on this one in most cases, but in usage that's what repentance means. A Christian would say that it's not enough to ask forgiveness from your fellows. You have to ask forgiveness from a higher power. ------------------- "Sit back, listen in, and sip some moe with us." ~The ANIME FORUM
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