Moot science

If I were to tell you that I have developed propulsion system that will spin forever without maintenance, and create energy without condition, and creates no negative effect on the environment, and relies completely on hydrogen lift and gravitational pull, would you believe me?

There are fields in science that have been abandoned and most people just accept it as bad science, but is it possible that I, despite what any one has said in the past, have rewritten the law of thermodynamics and create a machine with more than 100% efficiency?

Prove this figure wrong in any amount of detail you can conjure:

The pink balls are hydrogen cells. One of these hydrogen cells are pushed downward by a weight when it reaches the top. The wheel turns as the upward force equalizes. The cell is pushed downward again by the weight. The weight is on both the top and bottom of the specific cell. Weight on all points of the wheel are equal.


02/06/09 - Patent Pending - Thomas Whittaker (just in case)

Probably. Regardless, science is constantly rewritten. Had the bible been not so sacred, it too would have been rewritten several times, as many sects of Christianity ignore certain laws stated in the bible. More to the point, we haven't even begun to discover the universe yet. All we have are useless 9/10 times incorrect therories on the properties and mathematical equations of star composition, supernova force, the lifespan of a star, the density of a blackhole, or even altering time and space. Stating something is impossible in science is, well, bad. For all we know, anything is possible, we just haven't yet figured out how.

quote walnuts

What would you do about friction?

friction would ultimately destroy the components of the machine, and would every so often need to be replaced, but the force of the hydrogen cells constantly pushing upwards would be greater than the stopping force of friction.

(Keep in mind that this idea is not meant to be realistic. I'm just trying to test your minds like a riddle. There is a reason why this wouldn't work, but friction isn't one of them.)

Ok then, but then defeats the purpose of a machine that can run forever if you have to keep servicing it, no?

Anyways, another thing, Hydrogen Cells aren't infinite either, so what would you do there?

quote Fallen Royalty

If the weight is enough to push that middle cell down, the middle cell won't produce enough lift to bring the weight back to the top again. Since the weight was heavy enough to push that much hydrogen down, obviously there's not enough hydrogen to again lift the weight. I think. I could be wrong.

Ah, but the 2 cells on the right and left sides are both helping to support the weight, not solely the one hydrogen cell.

quote walnuts

Ok then, but then defeats the purpose of a machine that can run forever if you have to keep servicing it, no?

Anyways, another thing, Hydrogen Cells aren't infinite either, so what would you do there?

They are forever if you don't plan on burning them. There is no energy conversion here other than kenetic -> electric. Unlike chemical compositions that decay, hydrogen is an element. As long as the gas never escapes the cell, it will always function.

quote Fallen Royalty

But whether I'm right or not, it's still impossible one way or another because of the law of conservation of energy. New energy cannot be created.

Then explain the beginning of time and space, when the Universe was created. From nothing, to something. Surely energy was created then?

quote Northern49

Probably. Regardless, science is constantly rewritten. Had the bible been not so sacred, it too would have been rewritten several times, as many sects of Christianity ignore certain laws stated in the bible.

I don't know what type of History you've been studying, but the bible has been rewritten several times. Ever heard of Constantine?

quote Northern49

relies completely on hydrogen lift and gravitational pull

The problem with relying on "hydrogen lift" is that hydrogen does not have a negative gravity - it is just so light it "floats" on air. To get lift from it requires the average density of hydrogen + container to be lower than air. If you were relying on hydrogen lift to get the hydrogen up, the ball won't fall once it gets to the top.

Now you also refer to these as "hydrogen cells". If you mean that there is an electric motor and the lift is generated from the power from the hydrogen cell, those hydrogen cells do have a chemical reaction, and do require an incoming source of hydrogen.

I know this is a bit besides the point but the US patent office doesn't grant patents for perpetual motion devices. So you need not worry about your "patent".