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| Iceguy2003 |
Feb 06, 09 at 11:07pm ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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Log in to remove this advertisement As much as I hate cops, yes, they all think they are 'better' than us, even though they are our servants... You have to think about the cop's family. That is a bad stab in the heart for them. I'd hate to see my loved ones put on an album, being mocked and made fun of. Especially if they were dead, and they used the actual picture of them dead. There's no excuse, these punk rockers deserve to have their ass kicked by the cop's family. -------------------
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| hommedenord |
Feb 07, 09 at 4:50am ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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Hate cops? LOL, Balls up and go do there job. Wow.
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| JacqueseVonRIP |
Feb 07, 09 at 2:32pm ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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quote CyborgNinjaNot really. We were making the point that they would be just as pissed if want went around came around. | |
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| Misty |
Feb 07, 09 at 9:53pm ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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quote Iceguy2003I work with cops on a daily basis and have yet to see a cop that is arrogant or acts like he's better than any patient they help us treat/anyone else who happens to be on scene. That includes the drunks, abusers, idiots, lonely old ladies, druggies, suicidal, forgot to take their psych meds for the past month, slipped and fell, diabetics, attacked by an animals, drug seekers, I don't feel like going to work today-ers, frequent flyer that they saw 3 times already today, drunk driving and got pulled over and invents a reason they were really going to the hospital.... need I go on? Point being that putting up with people at what is entirely likely to be some of the worst moments of their lives is a prerequisite for anyone who works in an emergency setting, and even if it's not ideal there's a pretty quick learning curve. Arrogant, holier-than-thou cops don't usually last long until they want to find a new line of work. They exist but the ratio of good cop to bad cop is pretty high in favor of good cop. ------------------- To the NSA official reading this: Does the toilet paper in your office start with "We the people"? | |
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| RYAN LEE |
Feb 12, 09 at 12:26am ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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quote TurMoiL911Agreed. well put. | |
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| Glotnot |
Feb 12, 09 at 3:23am ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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Don't tl;dr this. Particularly if you've bashed the punk movement or blindly defended the police force at any point in these last few pages.
quote JacqueseVonRIPIt becomes a very different message in that instance. quote JuggerYeah. Except you'd be committing several counts of murder and then rubbing salt in the wounds, while this band just brought up a bad memory. Kinda makes me think you're the greater of two evils, y'know. quote Noraf45Wasn't the family's photo, now was it. It's the newspaper's. quote JuggerReally? Boycotted. You're not close-minded at all. quote JacqueseVonRIPYes, it does. Freedom of speech means just what it sounds like it means. It doesn't mean "freedom of speech to say whatever I allow you to say", it means, freedom...of...speech. Get it? But I do agree that it sounds like these bands are posers giving a bad image to a good message. quote LordMaximusI like you. 'Cause, you know, gang, there are several kinds of punk bands. Some of you appear to think that they are all the same. *bleep*ing. Wrong. Anarcho-Punk is a genre of punk that is exactly as it sounds; anarchist. Not all punks fit into this category. Punk is a movement. Not just a genre. The genre serves the movement, in various ways. The Punk Movement is about change, to remove corruption and greed and replace it with an honest system of government, or, if this cannot be done, to remove government. Bands with an anti-cop message aren't always of the punk genre anyway. And they exist because of a little thing called...police brutality. Yes, police brutality. It does exist. It happens, every day. People beaten or arrested for the color of their skin or the level of their belief. If you don't think it happens, you're blind. Most bands have reasons for sending this message. However, in the case of "Awful Truth", they may or may not be complete posers. Having not listened to their music, I can't judge, now can I. quote Slumpy monkeyThat's why I think they're posers. Because they said that. This isn't a publicity stunt, you morons. You obviously don't understand the punk subculture at any *bleep*ing level. The kind of people this message appeals to would absolutely detest the band instantly for saying that their message was a joke! In real punk, the message is everything! You can play like crap and still be a god! Have none of you heard of Sid Vicious? He's my current avatar, and a hero of mine, though from what I've seen of your completely biased, headstrong, and unwavering attitudes, none of you will ever understand why. quote JacqueseVonRIPThey didn't explain the song? Really? You think the newspaper would publish it even if they did? Do you honestly believe that? The newspaper that got their picture stolen by these guys. The newspaper that already put out a story sympathizing with the family and condemning the "Awful Truth". You think this newspaper would release any info that would make them look better? quote XenoThat doesn't seem slightly different to you? Yeah, obviously, these guys are extremists even if they don't understand the message they're sending, but still. There's a difference between hating people of a given occupation, and hating an entire race of human being. At least you didn't say that skinheads and punks are the same thing. quote Nu Wa RocksYou have no idea what you're talking about, do you. That guy is a hero. Maybe anarchy's taking it a bit to far, but he's *bleep*ing right. Rosa Parks did what to become famous? She broke the *bleep*ing law. She stood up to what, again? COPS. SHE STOOD UP TO THE COPS AND THE LAW WHEN SHE REFUSED TO GIVE UP HER SEAT. Yeah. So way to go moron. Way to ignore facts. quote GexTheLizardNot all cops keep you safe. Spoiler: Bicyclist Tackled For Not Avoiding The Officer Who Walked In Front Of Him Don't even try to say it was an accident. Slow motion clearly shows the cop pushing him down...for what, exactly? Spoiler: Man Beaten On The Ground Think about this. Guy's on the ground. Even if he attacked first, does it look like he's attacking back or resisting in any way? Spoiler: I Think We're All Familiar With This One: Don't Tase Me Bro I don't see the cops ever telling him why he's being arrested. They're simply arresting him. That means it's not an arrest, but an abduction. He's not resisting arrest, he's attempting to free himself. The Supreme Court has ruled that in the case of an unlawful arrest, a citizen has full rights to defend him or herself from a cop as they would against any other attacker. Likewise, if a citizen observes such an act, they are free to attempt to liberate the kidnapped person, up to the measure of killing the officer-if necessary. So don't *bleep*ing tell me police brutality doesn't happen. quote GexTheLizard Spoiler: I Wonder Who's Beating Who To Death In This Picture ![]() The cops you know might be nice. Doesn't mean they all are. The Policia are the worst. Doesn't mean there aren't just as bad here in the U.S., or elsewhere. quote Deadman RulesI don't think that was their message, but that's a good lesson to take. A man killed for the safety of himself, a friend, or a family member is justified. Who among you would dare to say otherwise. quote TurMoiL911What? You hate the *bleep*ing freedom you're given? Go *bleep*ing rot in hell. However, I do agree that in this instance, the "Awful Truth" is being disrespectful. This officer died protecting someone, and from what is portrayed of him, was not a brutal man; to commend his murderer for that is wrong. quote TurMoiL911Again, I agree. That particular officer did not deserve ridicule or hate. Then again. Do you think all officers used vast brutality against blacks all throughout U.S. history? No. Did it warrant a change anyway? Uh, yeah, I'm pretty sure it did, and it's hailed as a landmark in civil rights. quote KafaniDidn't steal the picture from the family. Stole the picture from the newspaper, according to the article, which has obviously been edited multiple times since it's original posting. Even if people had gotten it wrong, again, do you think the newspaper's going to let them say otherwise now that they've been totally and completely demonized? Uh...yeah. Not going to happen, mate. quote XenoI have two words for you: Hate crime. The law (you know, that thing you say you're defending without thinking about how or why you're really defending it) actually sees a difference between killing a man for discrimination, and just plain killing 'cause you felt like it. So, when the system that's supposed to be followed by the men you're defending states something, you'd do best to at least think the same, lest you be called a complete and utter hypocrite, no? quote Nu Wa RocksThe issue isn't the band, good sir. It's the reasoning and values behind their action that should be being debated here. Your constant statements about how the conversation should stop with no attempt to actually stimulate conversation is bogus and rather annoying. quote HawkeyeI like you. quote JacqueseVonRIPYes, let's all put blind faith that the media will always give us the complete story, utterly unbiased in nature. Yeah dude, learn to know what a bias is, k? That article is loaded with it. First off, it's that newspaper that got the picture stolen from them. That should be a damned good clue that they aren't going to give the "Awful Truth" members any *bleep*ing leeway, whether or not they deserve it. No, the newspaper is going to do whatever they can to make the and look like complete and utter dogs. Which is exactly what they've done. Do I agree with the band? No. Do I agree with how they were portrayed? Also no. quote CyborgNinjaI like you too. quote JacqueseVonRIPStill fairly hypocritical, mate. quote djminkus777It could be a matter of the newspaper simply not printing it, though if they want to maintain whatever fanbase it is that they have, they won't apologize for jack shit. And since when is punk mature? Since it was *bleep*ing created. I think you lot should get a lesson in exactly what it is that you're talking about. 'Fight War, Not Wars', 'Women', and 'General Bacardi', all by Crass. Anti-war, pro-feminist movement, pro-common man and anti-elitist. Essentially every Bad Religion song put out over the last thirty years holds some kind of message. 'Stuart', by the Dead Milkmen. Deeply satirical like most of their work. Bashes gay-bashers. Almost anything ever done by Jello Biafra, singer of bands such as D.O.A. and The Dead Kennedys. 'Unity', by Operation Ivy. Exactly what it sounds like. 'Oi! Oi! Oi!', by the Cockney Rejects. About the working man, the common man, sticking up for himself and refusing to bow to what isn't right. You know. That common principle Americans pride themselves on? Yeah. Punks had that same *bleep*ing principle. They still do, most of them. Just not the one's you've ever heard of. Why? Because the one's you've heard of are signed to major record corporations, owned by the likes of Sony, and Disney. You think Sony and Disney wants music with any kind of real message attached to it? Hell no. So by the time it gets to the level where close-minded assholes listen in, it's all become nothing more than poppy crap. If you want to listen to a true-blue punk band, go for the obscure people. There's a couple bands signed to major record labels, but not very many. Furthermore, why is Sid Vicious a hero? Let's see. If you just look at the bad, here's what he did: He's named Sid Vicious, so he's obviously mean, he cut himself regularly, did drugs, fell in love with a whore, went to jail for murdering her, then bailed out, attempted suicide, went to rehab, got clean, went to jail again, and then overdosed at a celebration for his most recent bail. Now let's explain that. He was born John Simon Ritchie. He was born to a poor mother and a rich father, who left shortly after he was born. His step-father died when he was very young. Ritchie got the name Sid Vicious as an ironic insult; he was harmless, and the name had come from his good friend John Lydon's pet hamster. Later, Lydon created a band...The Sex Pistols. Ritchie went to every show to support his friend. Eventually, their bassist left, and despite having never picked up the instrument before, Sid agreed to sign on...because they needed him. The story's told that once, Sid was confronted with a syringe of heroin: "What are you, a man, or a boy? Got no balls, do you? If you had balls you'd do this." The story goes on that Sid told the man to go *bleep* himself. The complete accuracy of that story is questionable, though Sid was by no means a junkie until after he met Nancy, a fatal turning point in his life. Nancy Spungen whored her way to Britain from New York to sleep with a member of the Sex Pistols; she chose John Lydon, better known by his own stage name, Johnny Rotten. Rotten said Nancy was to much of a whore and addict...a man named Johnny Rotten...so he introduced her to Sid. It's said that they fell in love because neither really belonged anywhere. Sid became increasingly violent whenever the two were apart. Eventually, this played a role in the bands dispersion, and Sid went solo with Nancy as his manager, creating a cover of the song "My Way" shortly before his death. One day, Nancy was found in their apartment at the Chelsea Hotel; she was in the bathroom with a stab wound in her abdomen, wearing nothing but her lingerie. Sid was...very, very high. He was crying, screaming, that it was all his fault, that he hadn't kept his promise, that he'd done it. There was never any evidence confirming his guilt, but they took to him to jail anyway...since then, investigators have found it possible that it wasn't Sid at all, and that an innocent man went to jail that night. After making bail, Sid attempted suicide, saying he couldn't live without her, and that he was coming to be with her. Later he overdosed on heroin sold to him by his own mother. That's the story of the most famous man in punk subculture. So, the next time you use the word "punk" as an insult. Think *bleep*ing twice. ------------------- I miss you Ethan. | |
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| CyborgNinja |
Feb 12, 09 at 4:01am ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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Bravo, i have personally had many run ins with law enforcement and almost all of them have ended with the police invading my rights and trying to make a fool of me just because of my age. I personally have low respect for them, though some of the officers realized it was a mistake, majority just tried to meet their quota.
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| JacqueseVonRIP |
Feb 12, 09 at 5:40pm ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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Glotnot - There are several things wrong with what you're saying, so I'll respond to a few.
First of all, you seem to think this thread is all about bashing punks. It's not, so don't start making accusations that we're not respecting the punk movement. Saying freedom...of...speech like I'm brain dead is pointless since you said nothing about the freedom to use other people's photos. We are not talking about an officer who was known for brutality. We all know it happens, but there are a lot of good cops too (usually the 1's who get killed doing what's right) It was a publicity stunt (it worked) Rosa refused to be discriminated for her colour, she didn't praise the death of a cop.. "Yeah. So way to go moron. Way to ignore facts." The media is biased!? *GASP* Why didn't you tell me sooner... As for the thing about killing 1 of the members family members, don't see how it's hypocritical. Even you said earlier it's an entirely new message. To wrap it up, I think everyone knows justice and the law aren't the same. | |
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| Glotnot |
Feb 12, 09 at 9:52pm ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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quote JacqueseVonRIP1) I'm aware this thread isn't about bashing the punk movement, although at points that is certainly what it reflects. Anti-cop sentimentality is deeply ingrained within portions of the punk movement, and condemning the band for wishing death on a cop, rather then condemning them for wishing the death of non-corrupt cops, is unacceptable. 2) My apologies. 3) I know that. I said as much more then once, if I remember correctly. 4) Mate, I don't think you understand. You think this band wanted to go mainstream with that kind of image? Not likely. They wouldn't last mainstream. That message can thrive only in certain environments. In those environments, to cast one's belief out as nothing more then a joke is proverbial suicide. If it was a publicity stunt, it did anything but succeed. 5) I can word that better. Rosa stood up for her rights as a human being, refusing to be mistreated by the government put in place to protect her. I've already acknowledged that these men are either posers or quite the extremists given that they praise the death of a man who died protecting, rather then hurting. 6) What did I ignore? 7) If you understood that, you obviously wouldn't have expected the newspaper to release any information that could be seen to improve the light surrounding the band. 8) Indeed, it is a new message. However, your own beliefs would theoretically remain the same and so it would be hypocritical. The original statement, from yourself, desired to kill the entire family of one of the band members, take a picture, and then write a song called "Waste The Punks For God". From your words it is implied that such a thing would be an equally tragic act, and so it would give the band a taste of their own medicine. On your part, this makes it hypocritical. Additionally, the desire to remove an occupation because of past experiences of corruption and abuse that are by no means rare is not at all the same thing as blatant murder. Let me explain. The band promotes killing cops, presumably because they've had bad experiences with cops, by using a photo of an already dead cop, and attaching a song called "Kill A Cop For God". You advocated killing the family of one of the bands members and then writing a song called "Waste The Punks For God". The difference is, the band didn't kill anyone, and the family members of the band could in all likelihood not even believe in the message the band is promoting. Likewise, I found it extremely offensive for you to condemn all punks because of something such as this, which links back t my reason for citing the work punks have done to better the society in which they live, yet they are constantly belittled. 9) I quite agree. ------------------- I miss you Ethan. | |
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| JacqueseVonRIP |
Feb 12, 09 at 11:48pm ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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First of all, that ignoring thing shouldn't be there. It was a quote of something you said and I meant to delete it.
Anyways, I can understand you more now, and I think I have done a very bad job at phrasing my points here so... When I said about killing their family members, I didn't mean it so literally. I didn't mean US to personally kill them, or that the people who would kill them be the same people to right the song about "wasting punks". I was simply trying to point out they would be upset if it happened to them (which I know you already know) Honestly, I would never wish any harm on the band's families, or even it's members. I would even try to help them if I was able to. But by making up that song name, I can see why you thought I was grouping all punks as no good trouble makers, and I apologise for that. I am definitely not the type of person who would judge someone on their way of life. I only "judge" (using the term lightly) others on wether they're good people, and their respect for others. | |
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| Robert Ninja |
Feb 13, 09 at 1:40am ^
re: Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover
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quote GexTheLizardWe can't say what cops are because of our personal experiences. A lot has to do with the country, area of country... and then dumb luck. Me, I've had VERY bad experiences with cops therefore I'm negative towards them... but I know that I'm just unlucky and face these arsehole police men. Saying a lot are good is just because you've been lucky enough to be around the good ones... or perhaps you subconsciously only focus and be around the good ones. A little more on topic... the band *bleep*ed up. They made a poor choice, hurt people's feelings and have given themselves a bad name. ![]() ------------------- ![]() Mouth, Loaded, with-a GUN! | |
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