Photo of Slain Officer Used on Punk Album Cover - Page 6

Hate cops? LOL, Balls up and go do there job. Wow.

quote Iceguy2003

As much as I hate cops, yes, they all think they are 'better' than us, even though they are our servants...

I work with cops on a daily basis and have yet to see a cop that is arrogant or acts like he's better than any patient they help us treat/anyone else who happens to be on scene. That includes the drunks, abusers, idiots, lonely old ladies, druggies, suicidal, forgot to take their psych meds for the past month, slipped and fell, diabetics, attacked by an animals, drug seekers, I don't feel like going to work today-ers, frequent flyer that they saw 3 times already today, drunk driving and got pulled over and invents a reason they were really going to the hospital.... need I go on?

Point being that putting up with people at what is entirely likely to be some of the worst moments of their lives is a prerequisite for anyone who works in an emergency setting, and even if it's not ideal there's a pretty quick learning curve. Arrogant, holier-than-thou cops don't usually last long until they want to find a new line of work. They exist but the ratio of good cop to bad cop is pretty high in favor of good cop.

Don't tl;dr this. Particularly if you've bashed the punk movement or blindly defended the police force at any point in these last few pages.

quote JacqueseVonRIP

Couldn't get the link to work.

It's definitely crossing the line though. How about we shoot 1 of the members family, take a picture, and put a song with it called "Waste the punks for God"? For some reason I can't see the members finding "humour" in that.

It becomes a very different message in that instance.

quote Jugger

I think this is crossing the line and the fact that they didn't even apologize makes me even more angry. I feel so sorry for the family of that officer, they don't need this to make their loss even worse.

I hope that something is done about it legally.

quote

How about we shoot 1 of the members family, take a picture, and put a song with it called "Waste the punks for God"? For some reason I can't see the members finding "humour" in that.

I second that. When they complain we'll just say "No one's forcing you to look at it"....

Yeah. Except you'd be committing several counts of murder and then rubbing salt in the wounds, while this band just brought up a bad memory.

Kinda makes me think you're the greater of two evils, y'know.

quote Noraf45

The family of that officer should sue the band for using a picture of him without consent. It has nothing to do with free speech. It was a highly distasteful thing to do. If you go out and produce a documentary of your town, you need to have signed consent forms from everyone you videotape that you use in your final production. That was one of the first things I learned in my film production classes. I think the same principle applies here.

Wasn't the family's photo, now was it.

It's the newspaper's.

quote Jugger

quote

"We thought that it was funny. The song is kind of a fan favorite, and so we made it the album's name. We saw that picture in the Daily Star, and it fit."

Stine, 30, did not apologize if anyone was offended and said he had no regrets.

They should be boycotted.


This message was edited by Seventh Moon on Feb 03 2009.

Really? Boycotted.

You're not close-minded at all.

quote JacqueseVonRIP

But this a photo count as freedom of speech? It's 1 thing to express opinions, but it's another to put a picture of a dead officer on an album with no logical reason except to get attention.

The band are clearly posers trying to get attention, and anyone who supports the band is obviously a poser too, trying to be controversial.

Yes, it does. Freedom of speech means just what it sounds like it means. It doesn't mean "freedom of speech to say whatever I allow you to say", it means, freedom...of...speech.

Get it?

But I do agree that it sounds like these bands are posers giving a bad image to a good message.

quote LordMaximus

Did anyone even think about what the message they were trying to get across was? I really like how the thread originator also decided to leave out the quote "It's a pretty serious picture, and the topic itself is, too." That quote is essential to understanding the rationale for choosing the photo with the tagline "Kill a Cop for God."

Before everyone goes and bawwwwws about the message, actually use your damn brain. This is intellectual exchanges, not OMG SOMEONE DID SOMETHING I CAN'T COMPREHEND! PERHAPS I SHOULD FEEL OUTRAGED.

I like you.

'Cause, you know, gang, there are several kinds of punk bands. Some of you appear to think that they are all the same.

*bleep*ing. Wrong.

Anarcho-Punk is a genre of punk that is exactly as it sounds; anarchist. Not all punks fit into this category. Punk is a movement. Not just a genre.

The genre serves the movement, in various ways. The Punk Movement is about change, to remove corruption and greed and replace it with an honest system of government, or, if this cannot be done, to remove government.

Bands with an anti-cop message aren't always of the punk genre anyway. And they exist because of a little thing called...police brutality.

Yes, police brutality. It does exist. It happens, every day. People beaten or arrested for the color of their skin or the level of their belief. If you don't think it happens, you're blind. Most bands have reasons for sending this message.

However, in the case of "Awful Truth", they may or may not be complete posers. Having not listened to their music, I can't judge, now can I.

quote Slumpy monkey

quote LordMaximus

Someone does something controversial, and you just go with "*bleep*ing bastards, they should be boycotted!" rather than thinking about the reasons behind it.

I can spout rhetoric too about opinions. How about, "the unexamined life is not worth living"?

They said it was a joke. There is no "deep" meaning behind it.

That's why I think they're posers. Because they said that.

This isn't a publicity stunt, you morons. You obviously don't understand the punk subculture at any *bleep*ing level. The kind of people this message appeals to would absolutely detest the band instantly for saying that their message was a joke! In real punk, the message is everything! You can play like crap and still be a god! Have none of you heard of Sid Vicious? He's my current avatar, and a hero of mine, though from what I've seen of your completely biased, headstrong, and unwavering attitudes, none of you will ever understand why.

quote JacqueseVonRIP

The thing is we'll never really understand what they were thinking. Maybe the song was infact critical of criminals and supportive of cops, but as we don't know I am going to play it safe and say no until the band says otherwise
Reasons I think it was supposed to be insulting:
- The band never apologised
- They never fully explained the song

They didn't explain the song? Really? You think the newspaper would publish it even if they did? Do you honestly believe that?

The newspaper that got their picture stolen by these guys. The newspaper that already put out a story sympathizing with the family and condemning the "Awful Truth". You think this newspaper would release any info that would make them look better?

quote Xeno

A joke is a joke, satire is satire, irony is irony, but don't give them so much credit as to being able to swiftly pull it off. Replace "Cop" with the N Word, and the picture of the dead cop with a picture of a hanged negro and pretend that a bunch of skinheads released it. Now, after they attract negative attention, they start saying it's a joke and that they were just trying to be different by using a dark sense of humor. Is it still satire, or is it just plain offensive?

That doesn't seem slightly different to you?

Yeah, obviously, these guys are extremists even if they don't understand the message they're sending, but still. There's a difference between hating people of a given occupation, and hating an entire race of human being.

At least you didn't say that skinheads and punks are the same thing.

quote Nu Wa Rocks

I think their ploy worked though... They pretty much put a controversial picture on their album to drum up attention, and it worked. Regardless if they have fans or not, people will download their songs or album to see why it's so controversial just because people in general are curious. Imaginge if they had a boring ass picture, who would care about their album, but now more and more of the public is becoming aware of this group, even if it's negative press.

Just like this dumbass: Jeff Monson
http://mmafrenzy.com/8932/jeff-monson-charged-with-graffiti-felony-following-espn-article/

Idiot was doing it for exposure to his movement.

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you. That guy is a hero. Maybe anarchy's taking it a bit to far, but he's *bleep*ing right.

Rosa Parks did what to become famous? She broke the *bleep*ing law. She stood up to what, again?

COPS.

SHE STOOD UP TO THE COPS AND THE LAW WHEN SHE REFUSED TO GIVE UP HER SEAT.

Yeah. So way to go moron. Way to ignore facts.

quote GexTheLizard

Or, in my opinion anyway, they could find something more productive to do with their time than bash the people that keep them safe at night. Like getting a job.

Not all cops keep you safe.



Don't even try to say it was an accident. Slow motion clearly shows the cop pushing him down...for what, exactly?



Think about this. Guy's on the ground. Even if he attacked first, does it look like he's attacking back or resisting in any way?



I don't see the cops ever telling him why he's being arrested. They're simply arresting him. That means it's not an arrest, but an abduction. He's not resisting arrest, he's attempting to free himself.

The Supreme Court has ruled that in the case of an unlawful arrest, a citizen has full rights to defend him or herself from a cop as they would against any other attacker. Likewise, if a citizen observes such an act, they are free to attempt to liberate the kidnapped person, up to the measure of killing the officer-if necessary.

So don't *bleep*ing tell me police brutality doesn't happen.

quote GexTheLizard

I don't understand who anyone can be against a group of people that tries to enforce basic rules so everyone gets along. The only kind of people that cops aren't good for are the social deviants that are the reason the general public needs cops in the first place. Don't like the rules? Get over it and deal like the rest of us, I don't care for speeding tickets either but I don't speed to make some kind of statement about how much they suck. And I don't suggest we need to kill the cop that come to save my sorry ass when someone's trying to beat me.

The cops you know might be nice. Doesn't mean they all are.

The Policia are the worst. Doesn't mean there aren't just as bad here in the U.S., or elsewhere.

quote Deadman Rules

I think they were getting at the fact that people kill in the name of god but when they kill cops is a much bigger deal, and all of you people flipping out over it is just proving their point. What you need to focus on is why people are killing and not who they are killing. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just what I get from the phrase "Kill a cop for god."

Stop being so sensitive all the time you guys.

I don't think that was their message, but that's a good lesson to take. A man killed for the safety of himself, a friend, or a family member is justified. Who among you would dare to say otherwise.

quote TurMoiL911

People like this make me hate the First Amendment.

I don't give a shit about your "right to say whatever you want." You don't disrespect people who died in the line of duty protecting punks like you. Period.

Free speech should never come before common decency.

What? You hate the *bleep*ing freedom you're given? Go *bleep*ing rot in hell.

However, I do agree that in this instance, the "Awful Truth" is being disrespectful. This officer died protecting someone, and from what is portrayed of him, was not a brutal man; to commend his murderer for that is wrong.

quote TurMoiL911

I don't care if it's satire or not.

How do you think this police officer's family feels to see their loved one's picture on an album with song titles with "kill a cop" in them ?

Again, I agree. That particular officer did not deserve ridicule or hate.

Then again. Do you think all officers used vast brutality against blacks all throughout U.S. history? No. Did it warrant a change anyway? Uh, yeah, I'm pretty sure it did, and it's hailed as a landmark in civil rights.

quote Kafani

I am looking at facts. They disrespected numerous people, they never stated their "true intentions" anywhere , and they refuse to apologize. Obviously, if their message was as angelic as you described it to be, wouldn't they ACTUALLY SAY IT by now, since hypothetically, so many people "got it wrong"? And to add onto that, if their message was good, why the fvck are they such assholes that they can't even apologize to the family that they basically STOLE the picture from?

Didn't steal the picture from the family. Stole the picture from the newspaper, according to the article, which has obviously been edited multiple times since it's original posting.

Even if people had gotten it wrong, again, do you think the newspaper's going to let them say otherwise now that they've been totally and completely demonized? Uh...yeah. Not going to happen, mate.

quote Xeno

Second, what's the difference if someone kills for God, or for himself? The intention does not matter, contrary to what you think. A dead man is a dead man, regardless of what caused the slaying. We are all in charge of our own will, and ultimately murder will happen with or without a valid reason.

This is why I am stumped as to the logic behind what you believe the message is. Typically, a message has a point, and making some vague, half-assed claim that why people are killing, as opposed to who they are killing, is the important factor to focus on doesn't really seem to drive any kind of point home.

Say someone killed George Bush. Would the major issue be "HOMFG someone killed the President!" or "... Why would anyone want to kill Bush?". Get back to me on why the reason is more important than the act, kay?[/size][/color]

I have two words for you:

Hate crime.

The law (you know, that thing you say you're defending without thinking about how or why you're really defending it) actually sees a difference between killing a man for discrimination, and just plain killing 'cause you felt like it.

So, when the system that's supposed to be followed by the men you're defending states something, you'd do best to at least think the same, lest you be called a complete and utter hypocrite, no?

quote Nu Wa Rocks

That's true that you haven't but can you speak for everyone else that is hearing about this band? I, myself, could care less for idiots like this band, but i know there will be people out there who are curious enough to look them up, download their music, or whatever else. You don't know if they are making money or not, but they are still getting the 15 minutes of fame when they actually deserves 0 minutes.

The issue isn't the band, good sir.

It's the reasoning and values behind their action that should be being debated here. Your constant statements about how the conversation should stop with no attempt to actually stimulate conversation is bogus and rather annoying.

quote Hawkeye

quote Nu Wa Rocks

I, myself, could care less for idiots like this band

I noticed that you've posted three times talking about it since calling us all idiots for talking about it.

I like you.

quote JacqueseVonRIP

Deadman - There is absolutely NO hidden meaning to the title. If anyone read the link, then you'll know exactly how the band feels about cops.
BTW Nu Wa, I know we are talking about the band, but the fact we keep insulting them and calling anyone who supports them posers is hardly falling into their trap.
I doubt there is really much more to say now. We've clarified they are posers who have pulled a tasteless stunt looking for attention, and the band has already been humiliated. Thats about it I guess.

Yes, let's all put blind faith that the media will always give us the complete story, utterly unbiased in nature.

Yeah dude, learn to know what a bias is, k? That article is loaded with it. First off, it's that newspaper that got the picture stolen from them. That should be a damned good clue that they aren't going to give the "Awful Truth" members any *bleep*ing leeway, whether or not they deserve it. No, the newspaper is going to do whatever they can to make the and look like complete and utter dogs. Which is exactly what they've done.

Do I agree with the band? No. Do I agree with how they were portrayed? Also no.

quote CyborgNinja

quote Seventh Moon

quote

How about we shoot 1 of the members family, take a picture, and put a song with it called "Waste the punks for God"? For some reason I can't see the members finding "humour" in that.

I second that. When they complain we'll just say "No one's forcing you to look at it"....

Talk about hypocritical.

I like you too.

quote JacqueseVonRIP

quote CyborgNinja

quote Seventh Moon

quote

How about we shoot 1 of the members family, take a picture, and put a song with it called "Waste the punks for God"? For some reason I can't see the members finding "humour" in that.

I second that. When they complain we'll just say "No one's forcing you to look at it"....

Talk about hypocritical.

Not really. We were making the point that they would be just as pissed if want went around came around.

Still fairly hypocritical, mate.

quote djminkus777

I believe it was a bad joke. I've made bad jokes. Their refusal to apologize is simply a matter of pride. They're mistakenly defending what others realize as inappropriate humor. It's not a crime, but it's not a very mature thing to do, either--but since when is punk mature? Basically, they'll get sued and maybe eventually apologize, but this whole episode will probably just increase their resistance to mainstream society and give them more to write punk songs about. They've sold twelve copies of their album total, so who gives a crap?

It could be a matter of the newspaper simply not printing it, though if they want to maintain whatever fanbase it is that they have, they won't apologize for jack shit.

And since when is punk mature? Since it was *bleep*ing created. I think you lot should get a lesson in exactly what it is that you're talking about.

'Fight War, Not Wars', 'Women', and 'General Bacardi', all by Crass. Anti-war, pro-feminist movement, pro-common man and anti-elitist.

Essentially every Bad Religion song put out over the last thirty years holds some kind of message.

'Stuart', by the Dead Milkmen. Deeply satirical like most of their work. Bashes gay-bashers.

Almost anything ever done by Jello Biafra, singer of bands such as D.O.A. and The Dead Kennedys.

'Unity', by Operation Ivy. Exactly what it sounds like.

'Oi! Oi! Oi!', by the Cockney Rejects. About the working man, the common man, sticking up for himself and refusing to bow to what isn't right.

You know. That common principle Americans pride themselves on? Yeah. Punks had that same *bleep*ing principle.

They still do, most of them. Just not the one's you've ever heard of. Why? Because the one's you've heard of are signed to major record corporations, owned by the likes of Sony, and Disney. You think Sony and Disney wants music with any kind of real message attached to it? Hell no. So by the time it gets to the level where close-minded assholes listen in, it's all become nothing more than poppy crap. If you want to listen to a true-blue punk band, go for the obscure people. There's a couple bands signed to major record labels, but not very many.

Furthermore, why is Sid Vicious a hero? Let's see. If you just look at the bad, here's what he did:

He's named Sid Vicious, so he's obviously mean, he cut himself regularly, did drugs, fell in love with a whore, went to jail for murdering her, then bailed out, attempted suicide, went to rehab, got clean, went to jail again, and then overdosed at a celebration for his most recent bail.

Now let's explain that.

He was born John Simon Ritchie. He was born to a poor mother and a rich father, who left shortly after he was born. His step-father died when he was very young. Ritchie got the name Sid Vicious as an ironic insult; he was harmless, and the name had come from his good friend John Lydon's pet hamster. Later, Lydon created a band...The Sex Pistols. Ritchie went to every show to support his friend. Eventually, their bassist left, and despite having never picked up the instrument before, Sid agreed to sign on...because they needed him. The story's told that once, Sid was confronted with a syringe of heroin: "What are you, a man, or a boy? Got no balls, do you? If you had balls you'd do this." The story goes on that Sid told the man to go *bleep* himself. The complete accuracy of that story is questionable, though Sid was by no means a junkie until after he met Nancy, a fatal turning point in his life.

Nancy Spungen whored her way to Britain from New York to sleep with a member of the Sex Pistols; she chose John Lydon, better known by his own stage name, Johnny Rotten. Rotten said Nancy was to much of a whore and addict...a man named Johnny Rotten...so he introduced her to Sid. It's said that they fell in love because neither really belonged anywhere. Sid became increasingly violent whenever the two were apart. Eventually, this played a role in the bands dispersion, and Sid went solo with Nancy as his manager, creating a cover of the song "My Way" shortly before his death. One day, Nancy was found in their apartment at the Chelsea Hotel; she was in the bathroom with a stab wound in her abdomen, wearing nothing but her lingerie. Sid was...very, very high. He was crying, screaming, that it was all his fault, that he hadn't kept his promise, that he'd done it. There was never any evidence confirming his guilt, but they took to him to jail anyway...since then, investigators have found it possible that it wasn't Sid at all, and that an innocent man went to jail that night. After making bail, Sid attempted suicide, saying he couldn't live without her, and that he was coming to be with her. Later he overdosed on heroin sold to him by his own mother.

That's the story of the most famous man in punk subculture. So, the next time you use the word "punk" as an insult. Think *bleep*ing twice.

Glotnot - There are several things wrong with what you're saying, so I'll respond to a few.
First of all, you seem to think this thread is all about bashing punks. It's not, so don't start making accusations that we're not respecting the punk movement.
Saying freedom...of...speech like I'm brain dead is pointless since you said nothing about the freedom to use other people's photos.
We are not talking about an officer who was known for brutality. We all know it happens, but there are a lot of good cops too (usually the 1's who get killed doing what's right)
It was a publicity stunt (it worked)
Rosa refused to be discriminated for her colour, she didn't praise the death of a cop..
"Yeah. So way to go moron. Way to ignore facts."
The media is biased!? *GASP* Why didn't you tell me sooner...
As for the thing about killing 1 of the members family members, don't see how it's hypocritical. Even you said earlier it's an entirely new message.
To wrap it up, I think everyone knows justice and the law aren't the same.

First of all, that ignoring thing shouldn't be there. It was a quote of something you said and I meant to delete it.
Anyways, I can understand you more now, and I think I have done a very bad job at phrasing my points here so...
When I said about killing their family members, I didn't mean it so literally. I didn't mean US to personally kill them, or that the people who would kill them be the same people to right the song about "wasting punks". I was simply trying to point out they would be upset if it happened to them (which I know you already know)
Honestly, I would never wish any harm on the band's families, or even it's members. I would even try to help them if I was able to. But by making up that song name, I can see why you thought I was grouping all punks as no good trouble makers, and I apologise for that. I am definitely not the type of person who would judge someone on their way of life. I only "judge" (using the term lightly) others on wether they're good people, and their respect for others.