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WonderMailer tonyhawk.neo? SAY WHAT? Two much Neo total posts: 2467 since: Nov 2008	Jan 06, 09 at 6:34am ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	Log in to remove this sponsored message Well, I believe in God and I'm a Christian and all, but wow. I'm going to hell no matter what I do. quote Deutronomy 23:2 One of illegitimate birth shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. (Direct quote from my Bible. So basically no matter how hard I try to prove myself in the eyes of the Almighty, I'm going to end up in hell anyway. Tbh, after tonight, death will officially scare me. To all the bastard children...we're in big trouble. ~WM~ ------------------- RIP Jenny Barnett By decree of Chad, thou will click-eth!
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Arcaida Permanently Plugged In since: Aug 2003	Jan 06, 09 at 10:33am ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	That's one thing I completely disagree with about strict religion. You personally can understand. You could live a life of rigorous service to God and Christianity, and perhaps live as the most ethical and beautiful human ever. And in spit of that, if your parents had made an 'unholy' call in their lives, it completely voids an entire life and soul you've invested into religion. No offsense, but that's horseshit. You think a loving God is going to call you on a horrendous technicality. I'm not argueing the Bible entirely, but I think certain elements like that are more or less incorporated to try and inflict a sense of morality into Christians. I don't understand how that's sensible in the slightest. And don't tell me it's just the way the Lord works. It's not fair. And don't tell me "life isn't fair" ------------------- TONI RUB THAT BONEY 2012
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Nu Wa Rocks Must... get... new... LAPTOP!!! Hooked on Neo total posts: 4480 since: Feb 2002	Jan 06, 09 at 10:46am ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	quote WonderMailer Well, I believe in God and I'm a Christian and all, but wow. I'm going to hell no matter what I do. quote Deutronomy 23:2 One of illegitimate birth shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. (Direct quote from my Bible. So basically no matter how hard I try to prove myself in the eyes of the Almighty, I'm going to end up in hell anyway. Tbh, after tonight, death will officially scare me. To all the bastard children...we're in big trouble. ~WM~ Don't worry WonderMailer... there's still hope for you yet quote found this answer.com The Hebrew term usually translated as "illegitimate child" is mamzer but the meaning is very different from the English term "bastard." Scripture provides that "a mamzer shall not be admitted into the congregation of the Lord" (Deut. 23:3) and while the sages understood this to mean that a mamzer may not marry an Israelite "even to the tenth generation," they disagreed as to who is included in the term mamzer. R. Akiva maintained that it includes the offspring, male or female, of any union forbidden by the Torah because of family relationship. R. Simeon of Timna held that only the offspring of a union for which the Bible provides the penalty of Karet (excision or premature death) or execution is included; i.e., an adulterous or incestuous union. This would mean that one born of intercourse with a menstruating woman would be excepted. R. Joshua's view was that a mamzer is only the issue of a union for which there is the death penalty (see Lev. 18:16-20, 20:10-21). The law as finally accepted follows the opinion of R. Simeon (Yev. 4:12-13). The offspring of any union between a mamzer and one of legitimate birth is also a mamzer (ibid.) The sages disagreed as to whether a child born of a union between a non-Jew and a Jewess is a mamzer (Maimonides, Yad, Hilkhot Issurei Bi'ah; Sh. Ar., EH 4:19). A mamzer, then, is a child born of an adulterous or incestuous union. However, in Jewish law, the child of an unmarried mother is not a mamzer and bears no stigma. The sages were mindful of the apparent injustice of branding a child illegitimate because of the sin of his/her parents. Commenting on the passage in Ecclesiastes (4:1), "I observed ... the tears of the oppressed, with none to comfort them from the power of their oppressors," they said, "This verse refers to mamzerim, whose fathers sinned yet they are condemned to exclusion from the congregation by the Great Sanhedrin of Israel who act by authority of the Torah. Therefore, the Holy One, blessed be He, says, 'I will comfort them in future life'" (Lev. R. 32:7). Here's the link where i found this quote: http://www.answers.com/topic/illegitimacy That is why I don't care too much for the bible... The book was written with old language, and now the interpretation made into the modern language butchers the intended meaning. ------------------- No gaming right now... my T42 video is toast (almost)... I'm getting zig zaggy lines all over the place. Neo HTML Markup help
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silverboner Bored Resident Neo total posts: 2721 since: Dec 2005	Jan 06, 09 at 4:25pm ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	quote Faithhandler If we all believed and took the interpretation of a group of Hebrew men that lived thousands of years ago, we would all share your belief. No you wouldn't. I already listed several reasonable interpretations. You do read my posts right? quote Faithhandler Here is the beautiful part about scripture, it can be openly interpreted. You know very well that i think your book is invalid and false. Why should i care about your one particular interpretation? I would think you would care about rationalism. Ignoring one's belief, so you can twist their words to mean something you know is contradictory to their opinion is basically lying. And if its not lying, it certainly is intellectually dishonest. We all have a responsibility to the truth. And in many cases there might not be one certain truth, particularly with interpretations of works of antiquity, but that doesn't mean every interpretation is as valid as the next. I have enough faith in most people, including you, that rationalism, and intellectual honesty is important enough to prevent claims which are essentially a lie. If you know the author probably didn't intend for such an interpretation, arguing that such an interpretation is as valid as the next is essentially a lie. And making someone's words out to contradict a known belief is intellectually dishonest. Its a conclusion lead by bias, not intellectual honesty. quote Faithhandler As i have asked multiple times, how is it a fallible interpretation? Adam did not die the same day, thus it was a lie. How hard is that? Remember boner, i think the entire damned book is a lie. I'm just asking how you can possibly say something so steeped in pure opinion could possibly be wrong. It's all bleeping opinion. I already answered this. Its not opinion. Interpreting the work of someone else isn't (entirely) opinion, and its not faith. Its based on understanding history, culture, context, language, and the author. There often times can be multiple reasonable interpretations, but that doesn't mean any interpretation is as valid as the next. This is about using the words of someone to illustrate a point that would contradict their belief. Its not about one's personal belief, its about making claims as to what someone wrote, and what that statement means. And I don't see any reason to believe the author of Genesis would make God out to be a liar. It doesn't fit within the Christian/Judaism framework. I have to believe that a Hebrew wrote Genesis, as that is a very reasonable belief, and Hebrews don't believe God is a liar, so why should we belief that a Hebrew's words, made out to make God be a liar, be the best interpretation? quote Chirovette Silver, you spoke about Evolution, which UNLESS you are purporting a completely different paradigm, DOES NOT require your belief. I spoke about my personal belief about evolution. I didn't say ANYTHING about evolutionists and what they believe. Look, since its my words, don't you think I know what they meant? Are you really better qualified at knowing the meaning of my words? quote ChiroVBette So when you speak about Evlolution, it is valid for me to CORRECT you when you say something that goes against the very tenets of the established body you speak of. I never said that evolutionists believe in non-random mutations, so you corrected nothing. ------------------- Evil necessitates God. Do you know what is so important about the number 447,225,917,218,507,401,284,016mg/cc??? Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.
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WonderMailer tonyhawk.neo? SAY WHAT? Two much Neo total posts: 2467 since: Nov 2008	Jan 06, 09 at 4:40pm ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	quote Arcaida if your parents had made an 'unholy' call in their lives, it completely voids an entire life and soul you've invested into religion. No. Not only one life. Hundreds of lives. If you read the quote properly it says me and my children to the tenth generation. So that could be like if I had 3 kids, and all my kids had 3 kids and so on. It could end up being hundreds and hundreds of lives wasted. quote Nu Wa Rocks quote WonderMailer Well, I believe in God and I'm a Christian and all, but wow. I'm going to hell no matter what I do. quote Deutronomy 23:2 One of illegitimate birth shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. (Direct quote from my Bible. So basically no matter how hard I try to prove myself in the eyes of the Almighty, I'm going to end up in hell anyway. Tbh, after tonight, death will officially scare me. To all the bastard children...we're in big trouble. ~WM~ Don't worry WonderMailer... there's still hope for you yet Yeah, so far as I can tell, the bible is either a wonderful collection of lies, and contradictions, or God truly does hate me because of my parents. And if anyone's argument is "Well, if they get married now..." Not happening. My biological parents hate each other. I was technically a "Drunk Night Out." So unless someone can prove to me that I'm not simply going to hell for no reason of my doing, I give up on religion. What's the point of following something that says no matter what I do, me and my decendants go to hell? Simple and plan, bleep that. ------------------- RIP Jenny Barnett By decree of Chad, thou will click-eth!
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Nu Wa Rocks Must... get... new... LAPTOP!!! Hooked on Neo total posts: 4480 since: Feb 2002	Jan 06, 09 at 4:47pm ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	Well, I'm a catholic by birth as my parents are both catholics. I've gone to catholic school all the way through till before college. I still go to church. So knowing what I know about God, I honestly don't think that God hates you. As far as I know, God doesn't hate. I can't prove that, however from history books (***and the bible), documents show that God loves unconditionally. So for now, i have to go with your other reason (that the bible is full of lies, contradictions and mis-interpretations), but that's just my opinion. The astericks shows that I don't really like to use the bible as a source as I believe it contains alot of contradictions to be of any valid to my arguments. ------------------- No gaming right now... my T42 video is toast (almost)... I'm getting zig zaggy lines all over the place. Neo HTML Markup help
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Arcaida Permanently Plugged In since: Aug 2003	Jan 06, 09 at 4:51pm ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	quote WonderMailer quote Arcaida if your parents had made an 'unholy' call in their lives, it completely voids an entire life and soul you've invested into religion. No. Not only one life. Hundreds of lives. If you read the quote properly it says me and my children to the tenth generation. So that could be like if I had 3 kids, and all my kids had 3 kids and so on. It could end up being hundreds and hundreds of lives wasted. Okay, but it's the same concept being applied a hundred times over then. Not a fan. ------------------- TONI RUB THAT BONEY 2012
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WonderMailer tonyhawk.neo? SAY WHAT? Two much Neo total posts: 2467 since: Nov 2008	Jan 06, 09 at 5:01pm ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	quote Arcaida quote WonderMailer quote Arcaida if your parents had made an 'unholy' call in their lives, it completely voids an entire life and soul you've invested into religion. No. Not only one life. Hundreds of lives. If you read the quote properly it says me and my children to the tenth generation. So that could be like if I had 3 kids, and all my kids had 3 kids and so on. It could end up being hundreds and hundreds of lives wasted. Okay, but it's the same concept being applied a hundred times over then. Not a fan. My point exactly. So basically, I think (sadly) I've lost all the religious belief I had. ------------------- RIP Jenny Barnett By decree of Chad, thou will click-eth!
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silverboner Bored Resident Neo total posts: 2721 since: Dec 2005	Jan 06, 09 at 5:15pm ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	quote WonderMailer Yeah, so far as I can tell, the bible is either a wonderful collection of lies, and contradictions, or God truly does hate me because of my parents. And if anyone's argument is "Well, if they get married now..." Not happening. My biological parents hate each other. I was technically a "Drunk Night Out." So unless someone can prove to me that I'm not simply going to hell for no reason of my doing, I give up on religion. What's the point of following something that says no matter what I do, me and my decendants go to hell? Are you Jewish or are you a Gentile? Weren't those laws written for Jews? Link quote Link The Noahic commandments are binding on all people, because all people are descended from Noah and his family. The 613 mitzvot of the Torah, on the other hand, are only binding on the descendants of those who accepted the commandments at Sinai and upon those who take on the yoke of the commandments voluntarily (by conversion). You might want to take a looks-e here, as your interpretation isn't the only one that people hold. Besides that read Galatians 3:28-29, Or Jeremiah 31-29-30, 2 Peter 3:9, Jesus came for all, including those not bound to 'the Law'. ------------------- Evil necessitates God. Do you know what is so important about the number 447,225,917,218,507,401,284,016mg/cc??? Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.
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ChiroVette Come back to us, Susan. We miss you! (supermod) total posts: 43078 since: Mar 2002	Jan 06, 09 at 5:22pm ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	quote silverboner I never said that evolutionists believe in non-random mutations You didn't have to. You SPOKE about Evolution. If you speak about the law of gravity, for example, it is IMPLIED that when you drop a ball off of a roof it will always go down, unless acted upon by an equal or greater force. You DO NOT have to say what gravity is and isn't in order for me to understand that this is what you mean. Likewise, when you speak about Evolution, it is UNIVERSALLY agreed that there is no "intended outcome" and I CAN and WILL correct any assertion to the contrary in a discussion about it. If you had said you do not accept the PROPOSED law of gravity because you do NOT believe that dropping a ball from a roof would cause it to go down," I would have corrected that equally fallacious idea. The point is that you CANNOT blame someone for correcting you as I did when you SPEAK of the Science of Evolution in an erroneous manner. Again, had you said that you had an intrinsic belief that some form of Evolution MAY HAVE taken place, but you could not reconcile it with your faith, I might have let it go. But you didn't. But when you speak of Evolution, it is IMPLIED that it does so without any guidance or help in the form of some conscious direction. I need no help from you to know that this is what Evolutionists agree on, because this is the universally accepted paradigm. And talking about an "intended outcome" displays ignorance of the science involved. So your statement came off as ignorant and in need of correction. -------------------
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Faust Champion of Opal NeoXtreme total posts: 8628 since: Apr 2008	Jan 06, 09 at 8:12pm ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	Well silver, it's obvious that talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. I don't even think that you realize, that you are arguing the only way to accurately interpret a scripture of faith, is the jewdeo-christian interpretation. It's obvious that the original intent of the bible means little to me, because, well if it mattered, i wouldn't be an Atheist...would i? The fact is, it is just as valid an interpretation, because interpretation is based on opinion boner. It's a document filled with fallacy and half-truths, how can any interpretation of it possibly be considered lesser? Hell, many knowledgeable people (Thomas Jefferson, whom for whatever reason you seem to disqualify) saw the lie in it as well. And simply boner, calling Thomas Jefferson, ignorant, of all people...is a bit incredulous. I'm done arguing this with you, because you are essentially a zealot. If i don't have the Christian interpretation, i must be wrong. My time would be more productively passed by repeatedly banging my head into the wall. However, i give this to postulate. If such conclusions can be drawn about the book, why is it that you hold this obviously fallible document as absolute truth?
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Koj I'm the leading man, of course. Hooked on Neo total posts: 4038 since: Jul 2008	Jan 06, 09 at 11:45pm ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	quote WonderMailer W[size=1][color=#435876][i][b]ell, I believe in God and I'm a Christian and all, but wow. I'm going to hell no matter what I do. quote Deutronomy 23:2 One of illegitimate birth shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. The book of Deuteronomy was written by Moses to the Jewish people. The Bible itself was written to those saved by the Holy Spirit. Wondermailer, unless your parents were reborn by the Holy Spirit, then you will go to hell for their mistake but assuming they're not you should have read on quote Deutoronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. quote Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Your parents' souls are in danger. I have no idea if they're saved by The Holy Spirit or not but their sins are setting them up for a worse damnation in hell than normal. Sorry if the verse scared you but you should have read on by two more chapters. -------------------
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Goddess_Maria I'm a bitch, I'm a tease, I'm a Goddess s-e-e-k-e-r total posts: 1914 since: Jan 2007	Jan 07, 09 at 12:52am ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	Yet another example of the blaringly obvious contradictions in the Bible. One passage says that 10 generations of the same family will suffer from a fathers mistake, and yet it goes on to say that everyone will be judged by their own personal sins. Of course, I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for this? ------------------- SXH 女神瑪麗亞
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Another_Mutant aka the Evil Storyteller true seeker (2K Remix) total posts: 2150 since: Aug 2002	Jan 07, 09 at 12:55am ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	Well, disregarding the contradictions there, and all the places it doesn't match the observed universe... quote silverboner quote WonderMailer What's the point of following something that says no matter what I do, me and my decendants go to hell? Are you Jewish or are you a Gentile? Weren't those laws written for Jews? Link Based on the research I have done and talks with some Jewish friends, I have to side with silverboner on this one. A lot of Christian churches teach that many parts of the law of Moses are still in effect, but looking at Acts 15 and assorted research similar to that mentioned in silverboner's post, it appears that it is the laws of Noah that Christians should be following, not the laws of Moses. There are still some issues with many interpretations of Christianity, depending on what one thinks the relationship between God & Jesus is. Many interpretations, especially those closer to polytheism would go against the idolatry and blasphemy laws. That means that devout observant Jews and Muslims should be meet each others criteria for people following the will of their creator, even more closely than Jews and Christians. That part doesn't seem to have worked out very well in recent years.
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silverboner Bored Resident Neo total posts: 2721 since: Dec 2005	Jan 07, 09 at 1:28am ^ re: Religion and Does God Exist 47
	quote ChiroVette You didn't have to. You SPOKE about Evolution. So what if I said the word evolution. It doesn't mean that I was making claims as to what evolutionists believe. quote ChiroVette The point is that you CANNOT blame someone for correcting you as I did when you SPEAK of the Science of Evolution in an erroneous manner. When they can't quote a statement that I said, that is actually erroneous, then, yes I can. quote Fiathhandler Well silver, it's obvious that talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. I don't even think that you realize, that you are arguing the only way to accurately interpret a scripture of faith, is the jewdeo-christian interpretation. It's obvious that the original intent of the bible means little to me, because, well if it mattered, i wouldn't be an Atheist...would i? The fact is, it is just as valid an interpretation, because interpretation is based on opinion boner. It's a document filled with fallacy and half-truths, how can any interpretation of it possibly be considered lesser? Hell, many knowledgeable people (Thomas Jefferson, whom for whatever reason you seem to disqualify) saw the lie in it as well. And simply boner, calling Thomas Jefferson, ignorant, of all people...is a bit incredulous. If Jefferson understood the intentions of the Author of Genesis, and said "Be damned with the Author, and I am going to believe what ever it is I want", ignoring context, language, culture and history, then yes, he's as ignorant as you. ------------------- Evil necessitates God. Do you know what is so important about the number 447,225,917,218,507,401,284,016mg/cc??? Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.
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Religion and Does God Exist 47 - Page 12

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