weapons ban and weapons discussion thread - Page 18

how about you google the countries and find out for yourself. I'll give you a hint, they all do. Notice how most of them are Middle Eastern or South American (save the exception of Poland)? Yeah, in fact, only third world and second world countries rank higher than America. Either way, the point is that countries that have strict gun regulation all have much lower homicide rates.

Let's stop being ignorant now, please?

So far all you have done is offer rhetoric, please actually provide evidence for your claims.

So, it's purely coincidence that every country with strict gun regulation has half the homicide rates, if not less than half, than America? just like, i suppose it's just a coincidence that every country that doesn't have strict gun regulation, has higher homicide rates?

Right, you're delusional. How about you offer something more than rhetoric.

Seriously, offer more than rhetoric and i'll listen to you. until then you're just babbling about nothing. It's called evidence, find some, or no one will take you seriously.

It's not a coincidence, there's certainly a correlation.

On a side note, Are you saying that America doesn't have enough rule of law? Because that's the most laughable thing i've ever heard.

Possibly correlation, yes. Would have to check stats before stating yes or no. Correlation not causation. Correlation not necessarily significant at all.

America has rule of law. Like I said, not expert on crime.

Bed.

Samus: Not-really-correlation-at-all is not causation or even necessarily significant. If there are other explanation for causes of crime that have not been ruled out, saying it's the fault of a lack of gun control is totally lame.

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If there are other explanation for causes of crime that have not been ruled out, saying it's the fault of a lack of gun control is totally lame.

You're dancing around the issue I illustrated, being that on your side of the argument, you can continue to demand proof upon proof upon proof, and never be satisfied. If this were constructive in any way, you might suggest an alternative proof, and say "No, this is the problem, this is what we need to be looking at to solve the problem", instead of "More charts!".

How did you treat the argument for 'taking away liberty' and 'freedom'? That's sometimes a toughie for me, simply because I'm not used to the social paradigm.

If something is responsible for thousands of deaths per year then it seems pretty hard to justify it on the basis of personal liberty. It wouldn't really work as an argument for anything else so why guns?

Look, all y'all who're getting frustrated with me: you didn't prove anything. Not even close. It's not like you made a valid argument and now I have to respond in turn. Correlation (And lame correlation at that--I'm still not sure you even proved correlation) is not causation. Prove guns cause crime. That's your job. It's not my job to prove that there are other causes of crime because that's self-evident. Crime existed before guns did. You have to prove those other factors that cause crime could not explain the discrepancy in the crime rates of the various countries.

Also the logic that guns make crime easier to commit and that guns escalate the chance of a violent encounter can be just as easily turned around to prove the opposite. If I know the other person might have a gun, I won't want to risk even seeming like I'm going to commit a crime for fear of getting shot. If no one has guns and I'm a tough guy, I might feel confident about my ability to commit a crime without anyone trying to stop me. I might even hurt people because why not? They can't hurt me back.

quote styot

If something is responsible for thousands of deaths per year then it seems pretty hard to justify it on the basis of personal liberty. It wouldn't really work as an argument for anything else so why guns?

People are responsible for actions, not objects. Also I would support the freedom to suicide even though that causes many deaths. People die from eating too much. Wouldn't ban that. People die from car crashes. Wouldn't ban those. People die from going fishing and hooking someone's eye. Wouldn't ban fishing. I can go on.