Isn't having kids actually selfish?

Around half a year ago, in the forum I administrate there was a very interesting discussion. Basically, a girl posted a picture of her baby (the girl is around 20 or something) and a member of the forum stated his opinion that having kids was something both irresponsible and selfish. Wow, this guy is terribly stupid, isn't he? No, not really.

More than 6 thousand million people in the world. Few resources, hunger everywhere, is bringing another person to this world just because you feel lonely actually good? In this world there might be a lack of everything except people, that's for sure. Even if you consider that you'll be a great parent, why isn't adopting a kid better? I don't mean better for you, I mean better for the rest of the world, there are plenty of kids that don't have anyone who loves them, and instead of bringing happiness to one of those kids and not contributing to overpopulation, you decide you want your kid to come through your vagina (if you're a girl) or that you want him to have your genes just for the sake of it (there is a chance the world doesn't need more people like you, and if it does, what makes you a good person is hardly something that you cannot pass with education or by other means).

Now, if you're going to say "yeah, maybe adopting is better for some, but I want my kid to have my genes, I want me and the person I love to be part in the creation of it", well, that's what's considered selfish, you're not caring about anyone else but you (and not only selfish to the rest of the world in general, but to the kid too, since what you're looking for isn't a kid's happiness but your own).

Personally I'm not planning to have kids ever, but if some day the biologic impulses make me change my mind, I know I'll adopt. Also, again, it's not like I always thought having kids was selfish, and I'm not going to waste lots of time arguing much about the topic, but what this guy says really makes sense, it kind of convinced me and I think rationally it's completely correct, but prove me wrong.

So, what can you say against this? (with actual points, instead of being idiotic enough to say "oh, that opinion is against what we traditionally do and you claim that something selfish when it's not generally seen as selfish, so the opinion is wrong").

So, You think that people have kids based only on the fact that they are lonely? Bull. If that's the case then you can adopt/purchase a dog or cat.

Also, not every person or couple has access to birth control, especially in 3rd world countries. And even if they did, there are a plethora of religions that forbid their use.

So, people have kids because it's human nature to mate. Kids are left without parents because of terrible accidents or a case where a kid got pregnant and gave the child up for adoption. Is that not selfish as well? Why should I make up for a selfish act by adopting a child?

That post also makes it seem like every pregnancy is expected...which most aren't. So just get an abortion and then adopt.

In fact why doesn't everyone just adopt regardless of whether or not they even want a child? If you don't adopt, that's selfish according to your(their) ideology.

Some people would have to have children, unless you're advocating the removal of our species from the planet. Assuming you're not advocating that then the question would then more become "where to draw the line on what would define selfish?".

Selfishness, or misguidedness or even just poor unforeseen circumstances. Wouldn't you rather consider how that applies to the people that gave up their children first? The existance of children without parents is no doubt a sad state of affairs, but is guilt tripping responsible parents the way to go? Perhaps that isn't your intention (or the intention of the person you mentioned) but it does seem to me that the gist of the message is "some irresponsible people let their children down so all parents that don't adopt are bad".

Not that I'd want to put everyone into categories here and slap labels on though.

quote Anonymous

So, You think that people have kids based only on the fact that they are lonely? Bull. If that's the case then you can adopt/purchase a dog or cat.

And that's what more people should do. And if that's not enough for them, they should adopt

Also, not every person or couple has access to birth control, especially in 3rd world countries. And even if they did, there are a plethora of religions that forbid their use.

If you want, only count in the idea of the first post the people that actually have access to birth control. And about religions, according to the catholic church it's a sin to use condoms, yet most people aren't THAT stupid and use them

So, people have kids because it's human nature to mate. Kids are left without parents because of terrible accidents or a case where a kid got pregnant and gave the child up for adoption. Is that not selfish as well? Why should I make up for a selfish act by adopting a child?

Of course it is. So, what you're saying is "Oh, since a lot of people are selfish I have the right to be selfish too". That's great. And in any case, the kid is the one that suffers, and he didn't do anything selfish so by adopting you'd be helping someone who didn't do anything wrong.

That post also makes it seem like every pregnancy is expected...which most aren't. So just get an abortion and then adopt.

In fact why doesn't everyone just adopt regardless of whether or not they even want a child? If you don't adopt, that's selfish according to your(their) ideology.
It's not the same, it's not the same to don't be interested in having a kid at all, or knowing that you're not able economically to have one and bring him "good opportunities" than to have a kid but just want him to be your creation knowing not only that you're not helping one of the millions of kids that need help while you can, but also that the life you'll bring will harm* the life of the people already alive

*"harm" is not the word, but at the moment I cannot come with a better Spanish-English translation of "perjudicar" =P

quote Ikary

quote Anonymous

So, You think that people have kids based only on the fact that they are lonely? Bull. If that's the case then you can adopt/purchase a dog or cat.

And that's what more people should do. And if that's not enough for them, they should adopt

True

quote Ikary

quote Anonymous

Also, not every person or couple has access to birth control, especially in 3rd world countries. And even if they did, there are a plethora of religions that forbid their use.

If you want, only count in the idea of the first post the people that actually have access to birth control. And about religions, according to the catholic church it's a sin to use condoms, yet most people aren't THAT stupid and use them

That post never introduced that point so I won't here either. In addition to that, you can't seriously be ignorant enough that you would coin others as being "stupid" based off of their religious convictions regarding contraception.

quote Ikary

quote Anonymous

So, people have kids because it's human nature to mate. Kids are left without parents because of terrible accidents or a case where a kid got pregnant and gave the child up for adoption. Is that not selfish as well? Why should I make up for a selfish act by adopting a child?

Of course it is. So, what you're saying is "Oh, since a lot of people are selfish I have the right to be selfish too". That's great. And in any case, the kid is the one that suffers, and he didn't do anything selfish so by adopting you'd be helping someone who didn't do anything wrong.

What I'm saying is that just because someone else was selfish, why should I inconvenience myself with the abhorrent (and in my case unnecessary) cost of adoption when my body and my partner's body are fully capable of reproduction. Just to help out a kid that I don't know, that got the shit end of the stick from his bullshit mother? In your light, she was potentially irresponsible and selfish and just because I want to have a child, not just get a child, I am now selfish as well? That is utter garbage. I'd concede if we were talking about this in the sense of a mass puppy-mill intended for numbers, but were not so I stand by my argument.

quote Ikary

quote Anonymous

That post also makes it seem like every pregnancy is expected...which most aren't. So just get an abortion and then adopt.

In fact why doesn't everyone just adopt regardless of whether or not they even want a child? If you don't adopt, that's selfish according to your(their) ideology.
It's not the same, it's not the same to don't be interested in having a kid at all, or knowing that you're not able economically to have one and bring him "good opportunities" than to have a kid but just want him to be your creation knowing not only that you're not helping one of the millions of kids that need help while you can, but also that the life you'll bring will harm* the life of the people already alive

I know that I'm not 100% prepared for a child, so I take whatever precautions that I can. Me having a child either planned or accidental doesn't harm or hurt or steal any potential from any orphan out there. It's a terrible slight of context you used there. My having a child potentially causing the ruination of an orphan's life depends on the fact that I had every intention of adopting in the first place and then backed out of it...which I have every right to do anyways.

I agree there are MORE THAN ENOUGH people in the world (some which we could certainly do without).

Adopting kids is a good idea. There are alot of kids out there who just want a good home and a family to love them.
A real shame their own parents abandoned them.


Personally I have a home and a family. I know no one's perfect and I don't expect them to be. But I wish I could actually say I really felt loved and wanted by my family.
It's not how I grew up feeling all my life. A long time ago as a kid my father was actually pretty good to me. But ever since he had an affair ... he hasn't been the same. Life for the family had changed for the rest of our life. Can not undo such a thing that had been done ... nor forget. Especially with the conscious existence of my half brother.

But let's not make this about me. I'm a grown man now in my late 20s. My half brother deserves someone to care about him ... and I'll do that for him. I feel sorry for him ... he has so little. I feel terrible when he lays around so bored because I didn't spend enough quality time with him (but at least half the time, if not more, I have other things I have to tend to). I'm not his father ... but I'm his big brother. I want him to be happy and provide him the better things our father couldn't ... and that I didn't get to grow up with. I grew up with no big brother of my own. No one to stand up for me and fight my battles ... only myself. When I really think about it ... so much I now know I really didn't learn in school. Especially things you can't learn in school. School did not prepare me for the real world I had experienced so far. Made my mistakes and learned from them. Had to learn so much on my own.
I don't want him to learn the hard way.


My point is ... all kids deserve love. Maybe even some of the "bad" ones ... and maybe for once they would see the world isn't such a bad place after all. One of the reasons they're seen as bad is because no one ever wants them. Ask those kids if they ever feel valued by anyone ... especially family. I seriously doubt they do. IF they EVER cry ... it's very unlikely they will ever show you. But what it means they are human too.


It's really sad. Give the kids some sense of worth in this world.

btw I admit to having the thought of having kids of my own. But to actually bring them into this world??? Apart from believing it's not meant for me ... considering the way the world already is ... the world doesn't deserve them. Not enough.

You are aware that if you look into it deep enough every human act is selfish to some extent? There is no action that I can think of that is truly selfless; everything always has an alterior, 'selfish' motive. That doesn't mean that all actions should be looked down upon and prevented though.

Having children is not selfish, becoming pregnant and not being responsible is the selfish thing.
Can I just mention how all birth control is not 100% and never is. Condoms are 97% my mum had twins with a coil and condoms. My lovers mum had her first child while on the pill, which is suppose to be 99.5 (i think) accurate.
some people end up just getting pregnant.
Now look at this website Worldometers. The number is going up all the time. There is no point what so ever trying to think that if we all decided to think having children is selfish that it would help over population.
I have heard so many stories around me about women who didn't know they were pregnant until 30 weeks, 37 weeks or even until they were going into labour.
So with all the unexpected pregnancies, and the current population already beyond repair (well ruling out natural disaster or war) why would you try to start justifying that having your own children is wrong? We are animals and its the most natural part of life, we cannot take millions of years of generations of birth and creating families to just suddenly change human nature. The population has been out of control for many years... maybe we should have felt having children is selfish then? does that mean me and you don't deserve to be here?
What I am trying to say here (which i am feeling i am making a poor effort in trying to explain it) is that human nature as well as animal nature seek to continue life, and if you don't personally feel that way and don't want children, mother nature comes along and finds a way to screw around with you and somehow you get pregnant anyway.
I feel adopting a child is a very good thing to do, yet I also feel we should stop people from having their children adopted (unless there was a serious matter involved, like abuse) to encourage responsibility.

Ikary on another note. I am 21 and a mother. I guess I could be considered selfish and irresponsible too?
To be fair, I don't see that at all. I was told by the doctors two years ago, that I was infertile- what are you suppose to believe?
Yet I am in a stable relationship, Have a good income coming in, Both me and my lover work seriously hard bringing up our child. I spend all day and all night caring for this fragile dependent living thing, and I could no way say it is selfish of me, or irresponsible. Actually I can say having children has kicked both me and my lover up our arses and made us become responsible adults, For before this I had no direction in life, and my Lover was glued to his pc playing WoW - great productive lives.... Really worth something? Now they are.