Religion and Does God Exist 41

I don't really know if that question can be answered, but I agree that it does seem to be the case. Throughout history the Jewish faith has suffered mass persecution on far too many occasions. I can understand persecution of a particular faith as it is easy to stereotype and punish people as a whole (not saying this is a good thing mind you), but as to why the Jews appear to have received so much more than others I don't know.

quote Geniusboy

If God does exist, he should probably be pretty ashamed of himself. He's started wars that have killed millions of people.

By saying that, you are essentially saying that God is forcing people to fight against each other. Those that fight over religion do not do so because they are commanded to by some higher being, but simply because they cannot live with people who do not have the same beliefs as them and feel the only way to deal with this is to resort to violence. Be careful how you word things; it is not God that has created any wars, merely people whos beliefs conflict and cannot live with that.

What you speak of there is simply people interpreting their faith in different ways. Some people see the Bible as the law that governs all and hence when confronted with a problem resort to the Bible for the solution. Others, like yourself I'm guessing, are more conservative and simply choose to worship God as the loving and caring Lord that He may be. It doesn't really matter how one chooses to follow one's religion so long as one does not attempt to illegally convert others or use violence against other religions.

Personally though, I see the Bible as a seriously outdated text, but respect its importance to people of the Christian faith. I believe some parts of it, such as certain Commandments, are still aplicable in modern society, and even though I believe most of it to be either myth or parable, I can still accept and live with those who choose to believe everything that it says.

quote Global Services CEO

Topic Change: Does anyone else find it strange that the entire Hindu religion is based on rituals that people don't know the meaning behind? They have no idea why the hell they are doing what they do and yet believe in Hinduism and do the rituals anyway.

Could be simply because the religion itself is very old, and while the traditions have been passed down, the meaning behind them has been lost. IIRC, Hinduism doesn't have a sacred text like the Bible where the origins of their faith are recorded (but I might be wrong here).

What I fail to understand is the belief some people hold that if they ask God for something He will answer them in a way that makes them happy. It is impossible for everyone to be happy; people will always disagree on certain things and if there is to be a definitive answer someone will always be wrong. As Rome said earlier, God does not wait on anyone hand and foot; if you ask, He does not (always) give. It may seem unfair that your grandfather had to pass away, but not everything in life is fair. Note also it was not God who killed him.

In terms of your grandfather, I'm sorry he had to die so young (mine also died at a similar age) but you just have to accept the fact he is gone. Life is always ended by death; some people can live until they're over 100, some die before they've even had their first birthday. I'd say you should just appreciate everything that your grandfather did for you while he was still alive, rather than dwell on the depressing side of things and blame God for not answering you prayers.



Personally I just see the death of someone as the inevitable ending of their life. Sure, you may be sad because you miss them, but there is no point in dwelling on this side of things. Rather, it is much better to think of all the good times and the happy times you had with the person, and how their life was enjoyable. We all have to die sometime; we should make the most of life while we have it. Living life in grief or anger at a potentially non-existent theistic being isn't going to be a particularly enjoyable existence; if you only have one shot at life, why waste it being sad?

On the whole 'small miracles' thing, I just think that some people find it much more comforting to think there is a divine, caring being who is providing these miracles rather than them just happening by pure coincidence. It provides people who have faith with hope, and in times of trouble hope can be a powerful force to pull someone through; it doesn't mean that they're prayer has been answered by any god, but if they choose to believe it has and they can take comfort from this assumption then I say let them. We should all be allowed to live in a way where we can be content with our lives, and for many people this includes religion.

I was privileged enough to attend something special today; a live performance by a South African Christian Youth Band. The singing and dancing was great, but what touched me was one of the members telling the story of his life. The main message he was trying to get across was "don't let your condition determine your position". His story was incredible and even in his broken English everyone could understand exactly what he wanted to say. I spoke to him after the performance and found that even though he was a devout follower of God and I am an atheist many of the principles about how we should live our lives that he believed in I completely agreed with.

None of the band or the people promoting the event were trying to pressure anyone into Christianity; I was able to have some very deep and open conversations with several people about their own and my beliefs. I just thought it showed that just because people uphold completely different beliefs does not mean that they cannot share common ideas, if you can understand what I am getting at. I just thought I'd mention this in here because it was a very thought provoking experience.

quote Naked Snak3

Being attached to someone means it would be wrong to harm them correct? Thats ties into morals.

What's to say this isn't merely natural instinct based on survival rather than something with moral roots? 'Don't bite the hand that feeds you'; basically don't hurt those who and raising you because they'll hurt you back.

I can see where you're coming from, and it is a valid point. I just think we share different interpretations of what a moral action is.

I came across an interesting statement today. I've been reading some of Albert Camus' essays recently and in one of them concerning the Absurd and Suicide he has this to say:

quote

The problem of 'freedom as such' has no meaning. For it is linked in quite a different way with the problem of God. Knowing whether or not man is free involves knowing whether he can have a master. The absurdity peculiar to this problem comes from the fact that the very notion that makes the problem of freedom possible also takes away all meaning. For in the presence of God there is less a problem of freedom than a problem of evil. You know the alternative: either we are not free and God the all-powerful is responsible for evil. Or we are free and responsible but God is not all-powerful. All the scholastic subtleties have neither added anything to nor subtracted anything from the acuteness of this paradox.

I just thought it was a very interesting way of approaching the topic at hand, in particular the two alternatives he draws at the end. I don't necessarily agree with it entirely, but it is an interesting point nonetheless. Just posting it to see the views of other members.

EDIT: Typo...

I find it difficult to comprehend a God that has created everything yet does not know everything. I guess the closest comparison I can draw is a person inventing something but not being able to understand how or why it works. Is this what you're getting at?

There are some people who will only believe in what their five senses deliver them. If one cannot see, smell, hear, taste or touch something, then to him/her that something does not exist. Considering God falls under this category for most people, those who chose to believe in this manner do not believe in the existence of God. However, if physical evidence appeared that could be observed with the senses then it is likely the person would then believe in God because they now have a legitimate reason to believe in His existence.

quote Goddess_Maria

Actually, on a sub atomic level particles have been known to come in and out of existence with no apparent reason or cause. This is The Higgs Boson theory.

When subatomic particles collide

Although only a theory, the evidence suggests that particles can just come in and out of existence.

IIRC, this theory is partly explained by the String Theory. String's have the ability to collide and join together, annihilating one another before separating later in time and reforming. To an observer it would appear as though they are coming in and out of existence.

quote Cloakblade5

Then by this theory, God could've "popped" into existence, created everything, and then could've "popped" out of existence again.

The theory refers to subatomic particles. If you are willing to define God as a subatmoic particle then yes, He could have done that (although how a subatomic particle created the Universe I don't know).



The other thing I feel I should mention is the idea that the Universe has existed for all eternity. Whilst our scientific techniques may date it at around 14 billion years old, the theory explains that the Universe undergoes endless cycles of expansion, contraction and then re-expansion. As the Universe contracts it destroys itself, and then reforms a 'new' Universe after re-expansion.

What is to say that there was not mass or dimensions prior to the Big Bang? Surely mass and the spacial dimensions could also have existed infinitely?

I purchased a book today from a man on the street outside uni called "Survivors". The guy couldn't speak English and just handed me a sign asking for a donation. The book describes itself as follows:

[q]This book is not a part of the "Left Behind" series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.

It is, however, an attempt to address certain issues which we feel were left out, contradicted, or mis-interpreted in that series.

We have used a few similarities between some of the main characters in that book and some of the main characters in our own, in order to give the public a feel for how events might have unfolded if the Left Behind series had been true to events predicted in the Bible prophecy, and if the characters purporting to be Christians had behaved in a more Christian manner.

Please read this book prayerfully and seriously, as it concerns important fundamentals in Christian belief, and important principles in the teachings of Jesus Christ."

Judging by the way the books been published it's been done on minimal funding and possibly even made at someone's house. I began reading (currently about a quarter of the way through) it though and aside from the story itself being very good, I was very intrigued by the messages that this group of Christianity deem to be those of the true faith. The impression I've got so far is that they're quite an extreme group in terms of giving up everything for God etc.., but it's also interesting the amount of conspiracy they've managed to generate by linking the modern world into the Bible's prophecies. While this book isn't going to convert me, it has shown me the vast differences between how one chooses to follow their religion and to show their faith. If (and this is doubtful) anyone here manages to get their hands on a copy I would highly recommend reading it. I've never read the "Left Behind" series, but if it's anything like this I might have to go and buy them.