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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4932 since: Oct 2001	Nov 29, 11 at 1:28am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	Log in to remove this sponsored message quote finalfight Kefka on the other hand legitimately destroys his planet through his own power. Admittedly he had to absorb the Goddess Statues to accomplish this, but that doesn't change the fact that he did absorb those statues. He is now as powerful as those Goddesses. This is very similar to Sephiroth's ultimate goal, a goal that he fails to accomplish. In my opinion Kefka is the stronger character. There's a slight correction here - Sephiroth DID managed to bring about the destruction of the Planet by summoning Meteor and IF it wasn't for Aeris (summoning Holy and LifeStream), the Planet could have been destroyed. Kefka on the other hand merely replace the three Goddess statues (which he failed a few times before getting it right) and screw up his world. He did not destroy it cos IF he did, the heroes could have not mounted an attack and destroy him later. Plus, with the power of a God and ability to summon Meteor on Kefka's little head, I have no idea what that crazed clown could possibly do. Therefore, Sephiroth is stronger.
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Darkking American by birth. Asshole by choice. Seeketh Maximus since: Oct 2003	Dec 07, 11 at 7:16am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	quote gobi1972 quote finalfight Kefka on the other hand legitimately destroys his planet through his own power. Admittedly he had to absorb the Goddess Statues to accomplish this, but that doesn't change the fact that he did absorb those statues. He is now as powerful as those Goddesses. This is very similar to Sephiroth's ultimate goal, a goal that he fails to accomplish. In my opinion Kefka is the stronger character. There's a slight correction here - Sephiroth DID managed to bring about the destruction of the Planet by summoning Meteor and IF it wasn't for Aeris (summoning Holy and LifeStream), the Planet could have been destroyed. Kefka on the other hand merely replace the three Goddess statues (which he failed a few times before getting it right) and screw up his world. He did not destroy it cos IF he did, the heroes could have not mounted an attack and destroy him later. Plus, with the power of a God and ability to summon Meteor on Kefka's little head, I have no idea what that crazed clown could possibly do. Therefore, Sephiroth is stronger. Just pointing a few things out. Sephiroth have yet to show off of his power. Even the original creators said that. On that side note, Sephiroth wasn't planning to destroy it, but hurt the planet. When the planet goes to heal itself Spehiroth absorb the life stream. If he really wanted to destroy the world just that he could have force Shinra reactors to overused the mako energy. Or use super nova to blow earth too, but eh. ------------------- Oldies only Revive The Role Play Forum.☼_☼
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finalfight Blood Puddle? Resident Neo total posts: 2780 since: Oct 2001	Dec 07, 11 at 10:55am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	quote gobi1972 There's a slight correction here - Sephiroth DID managed to bring about the destruction of the Planet by summoning Meteor and IF it wasn't for Aeris (summoning Holy and LifeStream), the Planet could have been destroyed. I believe you meant that Sephiroth COULD have destroyed the planet, which fine the potential was there. He didn't accomplish his goal though which was supposed to make him into the God he so desperately craved to be. Thinking that Sephiroth could use Meteor as a move in a fight is highly unrealistic, the attack takes forever to come to fruition. Now I don't feel like getting into semantics about the meaning of the word destroy, but if you wish me to rephrase things then fine: Kefka reshapes his planet through his own (albeit stolen) power. Yes it was an accident, but it still shows the magnitude of power that is now in Kefka's hands. Even Kuja has caused more canon destruction then Sephiroth, and it could certainly be argued that Ultimecia surpasses both Kuja and Kefka in power considering her ability to wreak so much havoc on time and space. Of that mind set I would also have to say that Sin may very well be another villain that ranks rather highly, though he is so large I have a hard time believing he'd beat any of the others in a one on one fight. Still as far as pure power is concerned, Sin definitely has more than Sephiroth is ever shown having. The Weapons may very well fall in this category as well, as they are shown doing far much more damage, along with being harder boss fights. But that's game mechanics so I hesitate to say the difficulty of the fight matters. quote Darkking Or use super nova to blow earth too, but eh. Once again I don't think Supernova can be considered a move Sephiroth is actually capable of in universe. It is just yet another over the top animation in a game that is full of them. Or am I to assume that Barret can really hop 100 of feet into the air and shoot a fiery death beam out his arm? Or that the final attack of KOTR shatters reality? Note: I'm not hating on Sephiroth here, he is one of my favorite FF villains. I'm just trying to take a logical approach to how strong a character actually is. ------------------- False hope leads to true despair, watch how quickly white turns to black.
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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4932 since: Oct 2001	Dec 08, 11 at 4:50am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	quote finalfight ... but if you wish me to rephrase things then fine: Kefka reshapes his planet through his own (albeit stolen) power. Yes it was an accident, but it still shows the magnitude of power that is now in Kefka's hands. I think we can get one simple fact out : Kefka's accomplishments are due to the Three Goddess' powers which he stole. Do ya agree? Did Sephiroth stole anyone's powers? No. He inherited Jenova's will (since Jenova is his mother, technically - that is not illegal) and become a god by his own rights. He summoned Meteor by his own powers, and almost accomplished his tasks if not for Aeris' meddling. All Kefka did was all due to the power he stole. HE WAS POWERLESS IN TRUE SENSE. quote Still as far as pure power is concerned, Sin definitely has more than Sephiroth is ever shown having. Ya do know that Sin get whollaped every 10 yrs by the Summoners, rite? And that only reason Sin actually made a come back was due to the Aeons and a bug called Yu Yevon, rite? Look ... Even the creators of FF7 agreed that they have never actually shown the full extend of Sephiroth's powers and if ya look at the profile of Sephiroth during Nibelheim Incident Flash back (and in Crisis Core), he was merely level 50 something. So, I doubt we could ever see the true power and limits of Sephiroth in the game (unlike other bosses). So, in that context, All Hail Sephiroth, the Boss of FF games.
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Darkking American by birth. Asshole by choice. Seeketh Maximus since: Oct 2003	Dec 08, 11 at 5:36am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	quote Once again I don't think Supernova can be considered a move Sephiroth is actually capable of in universe. It is just yet another over the top animation in a game that is full of them. Or am I to assume that Barret can really hop 100 of feet into the air and shoot a fiery death beam out his arm? Or that the final attack of KOTR shatters reality? Note: I'm not hating on Sephiroth here, he is one of my favorite FF villains. I'm just trying to take a logical approach to how strong a character actually is. The thing about supernova, sephiroth used it in more than just one game. Even in kingdom hearts series and Dissidia. So, depending which version of supernova you want to go on? Oh and Barret, most likely ya...There was no such thing as gravity in advert children so why not? You had cloud and sephiroth flying all over the place, and destroying the ruins of midgar at the same time...Though this is not the agruement. quote hinking that Sephiroth could use Meteor as a move in a fight is highly unrealistic, the attack takes forever to come to fruition. Now I don't feel like getting into semantics about the meaning of the word destroy, but if you wish me to rephrase things then fine: Kefka reshapes his planet through his own (albeit stolen) power. Yes it was an accident, but it still shows the magnitude of power that is now in Kefka's hands. That depends on how big of the Meteor. What we saw in dissidia and kingdom hearts. He can summon smaller ones. Edit: Feb 22, 12 7:18pm ------------------- Oldies only Revive The Role Play Forum.☼_☼
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finalfight Blood Puddle? Resident Neo total posts: 2780 since: Oct 2001	Dec 08, 11 at 5:21pm ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	quote gobi1972 Did Sephiroth stole anyone's powers? No. He inherited Jenova's will (since Jenova is his mother, technically - that is not illegal) and become a god by his own rights. It is rather arbitrary of you to decide what does and doesn't count. Whether or not Kefka gained his power the "fair" way is irrelevant, if he were to fight Sephiroth he most certainly would have access to that power. quote gobi1972 He summoned Meteor by his own powers, As I recall he had to get a certain Black Materia to summon Meteor. Anybody could have done the same if they had access to the materia. quote gobi1972 Ya do know that Sin get whollaped every 10 yrs by the Summoners, rite? You do know that each new sin was the final aeon that killed the previous one right? Which means that the thing that is killing Sin every 10 years is essentially Sin. Why does that matter though? Sin has been shown with more power than Sephiroth has been which was my point. Unless you want me to say that the final summon is also stronger than Sephiroth? quote gobi1972 Even the creators of FF7 agreed that they have never actually shown the full extend of Sephiroth's powers I understand that, but just because they say that Sephiroth is stronger than he's been shown does not mean that he has near infinite amounts of power and is a god. You're reaching far to high with your conclusions, especially when as I've said we've never seen Sephiroth demonstrate a particularly impressive level of power in comparison to other final fantasy villains. IE: Kefka reshapes the world. Ultimecia distorts space and time. Kuja blows up a whole other world. Sin can devastate entire cities/armies in one beam. quote Darkking The thing about supernova, sephiroth used it in more than just one game. Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts can hardly be considered canon. quote Darkking Oh and Barret, most likely ya...There was no such thing as gravity in advert children so why not? Well if you recall they had to go through quite a lot of effort to get Cloud high enough to kill Bahamut. I definitely don't see Barret jumping that high without assistance when Cloud couldn't pull it off. Does this mean you accept that Knights of the Round doesn't shatter reality every time it is used? quote Darkking That depends on how big of the Meteor. What we said in dissidia and kingdom hearts. He can summon smaller ones. The idea of there somehow being smaller Meteors doesn't even make sense for the narrative of FF7. The reason that Sephiroth gets those kinds of moves in those two games is because they are shoutouts to his roll in FF7. If Sephiroth truly had the ability of supernova, Meteor would have been unnecessary and the game would have been far shorter. Edit: Dec 08, 11 10:04am ------------------- False hope leads to true despair, watch how quickly white turns to black.
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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4932 since: Oct 2001	Dec 09, 11 at 5:04am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	by finalfight quote It is rather arbitrary of you to decide what does and doesn't count. Whether or not Kefka gained his power the "fair" way is irrelevant, if he were to fight Sephiroth he most certainly would have access to that power. Bottomline - Sephiroth got his powers fair and square, Kefka did not. Which means that the power which Sephiroth uses was his own and he will have access to it at any time. What Kefka used was NOT his own so I have no problem believing that he gonna run out of steam one of this days. quote As I recall he had to get a certain Black Materia to summon Meteor. Anybody could have done the same if they had access to the materia. I'm sorry but I do not accept. IF anyone could summon Meteor, why didn't Jenova or Sephiroth manipulate Cloud (or anyone else for that matter) to summon Meteor? Answer ... Most likely they require a large amount of MP which can only obtain within the LifeStream. So, I disagree. quote You do know that each new sin was the final aeon that killed the previous one right? Actually ya are mistaken. The use of Final Aeon to kill Sin was due to repeat the Cycle ONLY. Sin can be killed using other means - such as technology. The real problem is not ensuring Sin doesn't come back. quote I understand that, but just because they say that Sephiroth is stronger than he's been shown does not mean that he has near infinite amounts of power and is a god. I think they did say he had become a god.
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Darkking American by birth. Asshole by choice. Seeketh Maximus since: Oct 2003	Dec 09, 11 at 8:16pm ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	quote finalfight Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts can hardly be considered canon. If you go by cannon alone. They Sephiroth can indeed just create a supernova whenever he feels like it and not blow up the planet. quote finalfight Well if you recall they had to go through quite a lot of effort to get Cloud high enough to kill Bahamut. I definitely don't see Barret jumping that high without assistance when Cloud couldn't pull it off. Does this mean you accept that Knights of the Round doesn't shatter reality every time it is used? Pfft, I guess so then, lol. Laws of Gravity or anything for that matter in ff7 only exist for plot reason alone. Like falling down from a building and hitting the ground...no injuries. Suddenly they can just about fly with cloud vs sephiroth in the movie. There he was gaining massive height without the others. quote finalfight The idea of there somehow being smaller Meteors doesn't even make sense for the narrative of FF7. The reason that Sephiroth gets those kinds of moves in those two games is because they are shoutouts to his roll in FF7. If Sephiroth truly had the ability of supernova, Meteor would have been unnecessary and the game would have been far shorter. Maybe if he used supernova on the planet it would have destroyed it. So, he had to avoid it? Look, there no point in trying to reason with ff games. IMO, the most evil one of them all was the emperor. He not only taken over the world, but heaven and hell as well. You have a time witch is going back in the past prepossessing people to take over the world. If she was having that much trouble to do all of that. Why didn't she just kill off Leon and his group so they wouldn't cause so much problems in the first place? If Kuja could just blow up his home world and once he went back to Gaia. Why wouldn't he just blow up the other world real quick once he did? Kill his brother and be on with it and find a new world? To make it short, each world have their own cannon and rules. If Sephiroth did it in his own world then so be it. Kotr can shatter reality when used. OK so? Plot holes, but whatever. Almost every game, specially with ff games have it that make no sense. You really want to argue with physics in ff games? ------------------- Oldies only Revive The Role Play Forum.☼_☼
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finalfight Blood Puddle? Resident Neo total posts: 2780 since: Oct 2001	Dec 12, 11 at 11:43pm ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	quote gobi1972 What Kefka used was NOT his own so I have no problem believing that he gonna run out of steam one of this days. That doesn't make sense though, how would Kefka "run out of steam." His power may have been stolen, but that doesn't mean that it is somehow separate from him. More importantly how is Sephiroth absorbing energy from the Lifestream any different than what Kefka does? quote gobi1972 Most likely they require a large amount of MP which can only obtain within the LifeStream. Once again though that isn't due to Sephiroth's innate power, the spell had to specifically be cast from the Northern Crater as that was the only place enough energy could be gathered. quote gobi1972 Actually ya are mistaken. The use of Final Aeon to kill Sin was due to repeat the Cycle ONLY. Sin can be killed using other means - such as technology. The real problem is not ensuring Sin doesn't come back. I'm not clear on what your trying to say here. I was never arguing that Sin couldn't be killed in some other way, or that he was the real threat of FFX. Yu Yevon turns Final Aeon's into Sin, that is the cycle that has been going on for 1000 years. My point was that you could consider Final Aeons being equivalent in power to Sin, so the act of a Summoner defeating Sin every 10 years does not somehow make Sin weak. quote gobi1972 I think they did say he had become a god. 1. I'd need to see a credible source before believing that. 2. God does not necessarily translate to Omnipotent being. Sephiroth could be seen as a god among men due to the significant power difference between himself and the average person. But so could every other Final Fantasy villain, and arguably many of its heroes. quote Darkking If you go by canon alone. They Sephiroth can indeed just create a supernova whenever he feels like it and not blow up the planet. I disagree, as I've been saying for a while here, Supernova is just a over the top move in a game full of them. It is common in RPG's to have unrealistically powerful looking moves in combat that are never even hinted at being possible inside the game's actual narrative. It is eye candy pure and simple. quote Darkking Maybe if he used supernova on the planet it would have destroyed it. So, he had to avoid it? Supernova does hit the planet though, as it does damage to the party. quote Darkking You really want to argue with physics in ff games? I see most of your point, but as I've been saying I think the audience as a whole is largely intended to ignore the impossibilities of the combat moves used in rpg's and what would happen if the characters could pull of those same moves out of combat. We're not supposed to believe that they are truly capable of doing these over the top moves at a moments notice. For a final shot at convincing you that the move doesn't make since. I had forgotten the part where he explodes the sun, which really is a damn important thing to remember. Now you're telling me that Sephiroth is capable of destroying the Sun? And if you watch that video the sun is clearly enveloping Earth which is what causes the damage to your party, which would mean that attack would destroy Earth. Yet some how the party is still alive, and better yet, the planet is still whole, even though it is clearly obliterated by the Sun? And he can use the move multiple times?! ------------------- False hope leads to true despair, watch how quickly white turns to black.
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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4932 since: Oct 2001	Dec 13, 11 at 1:16am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	by Finalfight quote That doesn't make sense though, how would Kefka "run out of steam." His power may have been stolen, but that doesn't mean that it is somehow separate from him. More importantly how is Sephiroth absorbing energy from the Lifestream any different than what Kefka does? I presume ya think that a thief can claim something which he stole to belong to him just cause he managed to steal it. Sephiroth stole ENERGY to do something (which he was lacking in - energy). Kefka on the other hand stole POWER to do something. The difference between Sephiroth and Kefka is, Sephiroth has the ability but lacks energy so he stole it. Kefka was lacking everything so he stole and use the power (which is not his to begin with). Which means even if Sephiroth ran out of energy, he can always steal it from some other source. Kefka on the other hand have to find power equivalent to that of the Three Goddesses if he ever ran out of power to use. quote Once again though that isn't due to Sephiroth's innate power, the spell had to specifically be cast from the Northern Crater as that was the only place enough energy could be gathered. Agreed. Sephiroth couldn't possibly cast such a huge spell (like Meteor) without the energy from the LifeStream. quote My point was that you could consider Final Aeons being equivalent in power to Sin, so the act of a Summoner defeating Sin every 10 years does not somehow make Sin weak. What I'm saying is that the requirement for the Final Aeons are merely a fraud set up by the Yevonites. In order to ensure Sin keeps coming back, the Cycle must be repeated therefore, Final Aeon must be obtained and used. Bottomline :- As long as the Sin can be killed with other means and Aeons are not involved in the actual process, Sin cannot be brought back. It is not matter whether Sin is strong or not, it is more toward the process of repeating the Cycle. quote 2. God does not necessarily translate to Omnipotent being. Sephiroth could be seen as a god among men due to the significant power difference between himself and the average person. But so could every other Final Fantasy villain, and arguably many of its heroes. I said A God, not THE GOD. As ya said, becoming a god is like a god among men due to power. And if ya agree that being a god means having significant power difference between himself and others, then Sephiroth had become a god in his own right. Agree?
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Ultravegeta Pain threadnought total posts: 621 since: Jul 2006	Dec 14, 11 at 2:10am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	Ultimecia would be a tough opponent too. Bending time and space is so win. Between Kefka and Sephiroth, I'd like Sephiroth to win. -------------------
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lucasguic forum junky total posts: 81 since: Dec 2011	Dec 19, 11 at 2:26am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	quote Koj quote duhu1148 Supernova > all. Supernova does fractional damage, though it looks pretty. Supernova, though it destroyes all the planets in the solar system excluding Earth (though it should since the sun touches down on the earth) it only does 1/6th the current HP or something like that. It should at least cause an instant Game Over, if anything. agreed!! xD
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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4932 since: Oct 2001	Feb 23, 12 at 1:29am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	quote Ultravegeta Ultimecia would be a tough opponent too. Bending time and space is so win. Between Kefka and Sephiroth, I'd like Sephiroth to win. Agreed. All Hail Sephiroth!
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finalfight Blood Puddle? Resident Neo total posts: 2780 since: Oct 2001	Feb 23, 12 at 3:31pm ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	Ah right, this thread. A little late, but here goes. quote gobi1972 I presume ya think that a thief can claim something which he stole to belong to him just cause he managed to steal it. Whether or not it "belongs" to him is irrelevant. He has it now, it is a part of him. We're not arguing about the morality of the action or whether or not Kefka legally has rights to claim the power of the Goddesses. He took that power, and now has full use of it, I don't even understand why you're disputing this really. quote gobi1972 Sephiroth stole ENERGY to do something (which he was lacking in - energy). Kefka on the other hand stole POWER to do something. You're trying to build an argument from semantics but it simply doesn't hold up. How either character got their powers does not effect at all who would win in a fight. More importantly if you look at what Sephiroth was trying to accomplish, he was in fact trying to steal "Power" by smashing Meteor into the planet and absorbing all the delicious nutrients of the dead masses. Considering this I'd say you'd have to argue that while Sephiroth has "Energy" he lacks "Power" whereas Kefka was able to steal both. With that being said I think you're giving pre-Goddess Kefka to little credit. He was already capable of taking on multiple Espers (I.E. summons) by himself well before he went and blew up the world. His infusion of Magicite is not so different from Sephiroth's own infusion of Jehova cells. And if we're getting into semantics, then you'd have to argue that Sephiroth is stealing Jehova's power from birth just like Kefka is stealing the Esper's. Not that I think it matters how power is earned anyway. quote gobi1972 Which means even if Sephiroth ran out of energy, he can always steal it from some other source. Kefka on the other hand have to find power equivalent to that of the Three Goddesses if he ever ran out of power to use. ... No? Sephiroth running out of energy means that there is no more lifestream to suck up, that's definitely not a source that can be replaced. quote gobi1972 What I'm saying is that the requirement for the Final Aeons are merely a fraud set up by the Yevonites. In order to ensure Sin keeps coming back, the Cycle must be repeated therefore, Final Aeon must be obtained and used. Bottomline :- As long as the Sin can be killed with other means and Aeons are not involved in the actual process, Sin cannot be brought back. It is not matter whether Sin is strong or not, it is more toward the process of repeating the Cycle. I know about the whole cycle, I'm just arguing that Sin is undeniably strong. It is capable of destroying cities and armies in an instant, and has displayed a level of power that Sephiroth has not. Just because it exists in a cycle where an equally strong creature kills and replaces it, does not take away from it's strength. quote gobi1972 And if ya agree that being a god means having significant power difference between himself and others, then Sephiroth had become a god in his own right. Agree? Of course I agree. But using that same logic so has Kefka, and Kuja, and Ultimecia, and Sin, and Cloud, and Squall, and pretty much any other main character or villain in any of the final fantasy games. Or video games in general. ------------------- False hope leads to true despair, watch how quickly white turns to black.
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GameDev-Jacob Neo-newbie total posts: 2 since: Feb 2012	Feb 27, 12 at 8:11am ^ re: Kefka vs. Sephiroth
	This is mostly irrelevant to this forum, but I need help with my FMP for college. The reason for this is that I need Primary and Secondary research in order to Pass the assignment. I have to create a short game trailer about 1 minute - 3 minutes long. My basis of my game idea revolves around the fountain of youth, and anyone who drinks form the fountain gains immense magical prowess. quick note - Syhars are the race of people Now the story point I have yet to choose on they are : 1. Other evil Syhars want to corrupt the system and rule the domain themselves with all that power. 2. The Syhars are being attacked by several different factions in order to retrieve the fountain. 3.The Syhars attack neighbouring countries for global domination. 4.The Syhar race died out a long time ago and only remnants remain and they seek to fins the ancient fountain of youth to restore their race to its former glory. I myself, am more inclined to the last idea but I want your views. Also the basis of the trailer will start out like Eternal Ring when Cain Morgan walks up to the ring, my main character will walk up to the fountain but change shortly after. Along the way the camera will cut out to look at some parts of the environment such as skeletons on the floor, fire lighting up as the man character walks past, also camera looks at the main character at a side on view and in the background another shadow darts around, just after the character drinks from the fountain, the shadow launches its attack on the character the character transforms because of the magic and beats the beast. so what's your views? And I also need dialogue and voice-overs as well as a soundtrack but I am not sure what to have. My main email is, kotrvii@gmail.com Help is greatly appreciated. Jacob
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Kefka vs. Sephiroth - Page 2

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