Questions about Cloud and SOLDIER - Page 3

quote Gobi1972

No, I just find it unable to think of a reply to someone who doesn't give shit about his own World ...

Once again here you are putting words in my mouth, and referring to yourself an an object instead of a person.

Not giving a shit about my own world, and not freaking out about things i cannot control are two ENTIRELY different things.


Why should i go and get all worked up about something that i cant stop, or even know for certain when it will occur, should we all be paralyzed with fear and spend all our time stockpiling food and water in our basements in preparation for the earths demise?


I find it hilarious that you are being so sereous about this topic, first of all, this discussion is about Cloud and soldier, it has nothing to do with our planet, or its current or future state.

Drawing an inference with shinra and oil companies was, slightly clever, but you should really leave it at that.

Yuhazmudkipz?

Y So Srius?

This is the internet its serious freaking business.

quote MistaCloudStrife

First thing's first.

When Epoch said "Oil ≠ life stream", he was correct. This is basically fact since in Advent Children, Barret calls up Cloud and tells him that they've found oil. So there's oil AND lifestream on the planet that can be used as a natural resource.

But I also found this pretty interesting.

quote Epoch

In either case, its just fear propaganda. Global warming exists, we have barely increased its natural rate (considering its 5000 years late). Global weather patterns exist. Ice ages exist, and so on.Bottle neck events occur, repeatedly in history, mass extinctions occur, repeated in history. Life persists still.

I read this and immediately thought of the ending of FFVII so and so years later when Red XIII runs up the canyon with his children looking over Midgar, which is completely devoid of human life. We don't know exactly what happened, but even though that particular part of the planet was destroyed and meteor sucked up a gigantic amount of life from there, plants were still growing there.

The "life persists" thing is true to FFVII as well. Remember Bugenhagen stated that when anything on the planet dies, they return to the lifestream. Therefore, even if they sucked up all of the lifestream from the planet, at the end of the day, people are going to die. And when everyone dies and there's nobody to suck up anymore lifestream, there will still be lifestream.

Just saying.

I didn't read the entire thread, but thought I'd just comment on the last few posts.

You raise a point I think I wany to correct.

The area around midgar wasnt void of life because of the destruction of midgar, it was because of the sheer amount of mako/lifestream that midgar was sucking up, it was void of life. Which is why its very rare to see flowers grow in midgar, its also why the area around midgar on the world map, is not grass. It took 500 years, or up to 500 for the area to recover and start giving life again.

Although in AC and DoC midgar is barren of people because of both the destruction of it and the stigma that came from it. There is a similar town next to it called Edge..

You are too serious about everything, every time i see you post, its almost always contradicting someone in some way, usually some form of attack against a persons opinion or theory, generally followed by your own opinions which you tend to deem as fact.

Your basically a neoseeker bully in my opinion.

I was serious about everything i said, including the very end.

The internet is serious freaking business.


I will continue to be on the ff7 forums, and will continue to post responses to anyone where i think
it is necessary.

I will continue to do as i have always done.

Help where/when needed.

quote Epoch

You are too serious about everything, every time i see you post, its almost always contradicting someone in some way, usually some form of attack against a persons opinion or theory, generally followed by your own opinions which you tend to deem as fact.

Your basically a neoseeker bully in my opinion.

I was serious about everything i said, including the very end.

The internet is serious freaking business.


I will continue to be on the ff7 forums, and will continue to post responses to anyone where i think
it is necessary.

I will continue to do as i have always done.

Help where/when needed.

Huh? What? You said something? Sorry, I was too distracted by your moogle to pay attention to whatever you were blabbering about.

quote gobi1972

quote MistaCloudStrife

“Holy... the ultimate White Magic. Magic that might stand against Meteor. Perhaps our last hope to save the Planet from Meteor. If a soul seeking Holy reaches the planet, it will appear. Ho Ho Hoooo. Meteor, WEAPON, everything will disappear. Perhaps, even ourselves.”

He says "even ourselves" which suggests that holy might see humans as a threat.

But the thing is, the ending showed the lifestream come and fight off both holy and meteor, which suggests that the planet(with Aerith's ability to stay conscious in the lifestream) helped save mankind as well.

You need to remember the keyword here was "Saving the Planet" and not "Saving Humanity" (which pretty much screwed, thanks to Cloud alone). I think Buganhagen was thinking in a wide scale - putting the Planet's ability to sustain life instead of thinking about saving the human race when he spoke those words.

Holy is Magic (just as Meteor is) so it is independant to existence of humans - once cast, it probably destroy every life on the Planet, returning it back to the way it was before and allow Life to rebuild itself from scratch. Therefore, I don't think Holy was meant to save Humans but more toward to ensure the Planet doesn't fall into a deep trouble than it already exist. It was Aeris and her action to bring forth the LifeStream which actually saved the day.

That's kind of what I was saying. But I don't think holy was made to destroy every life on the planet. I believe it was made to protect the planet from whatever threatens it, which is why it was heavily debated whether or not holy saw meteor or humans to be a bigger threat.

And I think holy and meteor actually have a connection to humans, as every living thing is made of lifestream and materia is essentially highly condensed mako, which is made up of lifestream as well. I always thought that was the reason why humans have the potential to use materia, since they are both, in essence made of the same thing. And the reason why when showering soldiers with mako, they get stronger since their life's energy gets an extra helping of raw spiritual power.

Basically everything on the planet is connected, and the only real outsider was Jenova, which caused the entire planet to fall into chaos in the first place.

quote gobi1972

That's not what I said. I said Holy is INDEPENDENT to the humans and the Planet. Which means it can destroy humans if it is necessary, to ensure the Planet is protected from the Meteor's destruction. I did not say Holy will protect Humans. Please remember :- Protecting Humans IS NOT EQUALS TO protecting the Planet.

Well then you're probably wrong then, since Holy was created by Cetra, who are human. I'll explain this in the next part. But it's true that Holy could destroy humans, but it's not because it acts on it's own. It all depends on the planet. Holy is a materia just like any other, it doesn't have a mind of it's own. The planet pretty much does though, so whatever the planet sees as a threat, that's what Holy will destroy. But the thing is, the planet's mind is a huge mass of knowledge from all that have lived and died. It's decisions are unbiased, that's why it wouldn't care if it would have to destroy all humans. BUT Aeris is a different story. Usually when someone dies, their consciousness will dissipate into the lifestream and join the mass of knowledge, but Aeris is able to keep her consciousness alive, as well as Sephiroth. It's all in MOTP. She is able to talk to the planet as a separate entity, even when she's already a part it.

So yeah. I don't think Holy is independent to humans and the planet, when humans created it and are the only ones able to summon it and while the planet controls it after it's summoned. Not to mention that the planet is basically a mass of knowledge from all living things, including humans.

quote

The Materia is condensed knowledge from the LifeStream and that knowledge came from the Ancients (who had been there for millions of years before the humans). Humans born from the energy which flows through the LifeStream. They do not have Mako in their blood naturally (which is why Mako are added into the body of Soldiers with Jenova cells). And it is Jenova cells which enables the Soldiers to do what they could (not Mako).

This is false. It states in the game that every living creature on the planet is blessed with the energy from the planet, and when they die, that energy returns to the planet. After returning to the planet, all the knowledge they gained through their lifetime returns as well, which is how Aeris is able to find out what to do with Holy. Both regular people on the planet and Cetra are the same, the only difference is their spiritual power. Cetra obviously having a very strong bond with the planet. Sephiroth states that regular humans were Cetra that stopped migrating(in search for the promised land) and settled down in one place. Cetra aren't born with more spiritual energy than regular humans, they just had strong ties to the planet. They were able to talk to the planet and had the knowledge to be able to bring forth the planet's power and cultivate it. They basically made the planet a better place, whereas in the time of FFVII, the humans could no longer talk to the planet and were hurting it and not helping it anymore.

Also, Mako made SOLDIERS stronger. What exactly do you mean "enables the Soldiers to do what they could (not Mako)."? I just want to know exactly what you think Jenova cells did for SOLDIERs, before I even comment on mako and Jenova.