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Turkagent Veritas Vos Liberabit Neoholic total posts: 10386 neopoints: 485 since: Feb 2002	Jul 12, 11 at 7:54pm ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	Log in to remove this sponsored message quote lucedeoangel quote Turkagent You know... I never have played Crisis Core... what system is it for? PSP. Meh... I hate handhelds. I gave my little brother my PSP years ago... is there any other form it comes in? Is it worth it in your opinion? ------------------- In the first place God made idiots. This was for practice. Then He made school boards. - Mark Twain
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turel "Be free my friend, as the rest of us" forum fever total posts: 388 since: May 2002	Jul 12, 11 at 7:55pm ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote lucedeoangel Sephy isn't a clone, for starters. XD Genesis says Sephiroth was the perfect monster, because he doesn't deteriorate. Hollander said Angeal was the the perfect one, but obviously he was wrong. quote turel So the J cells in him is not like the ones injected in other members like Zack, or Cloud. quote No, they're the same. Difference is Sephiroth's was injected as a fetus. So, it would have sort of liked, merged better, if you get what I mean? I see that you know your stuff. I've played through Crisis Core two time only. It's a compilation of FF7, but helps explains a lot. quote Turkagent You know... I never have played Crisis Core... what system is it for? PSP. Edit: Whooops!!!! We were posting at the same time!!!!
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turel "Be free my friend, as the rest of us" forum fever total posts: 388 since: May 2002	Jul 12, 11 at 8:41pm ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote Turkagent Meh... I hate handhelds. I gave my little brother my PSP years ago... is there any other form it comes in? Is it worth it in your opinion? It's currently only on the PSP. And yes, it's a definite must have for any FF7 veteran or player.
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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4933 since: Oct 2001	Jul 14, 11 at 5:01am ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote aftn Well, I'd say he was superior, since he was preventing Holy from being cast. He was stopping a prayer from an ancient from being answered. Ahem ... that was his clone who were doing his (or Jenova's will). And I think that's not such a great feat to stab someone from the back, no? PS : Aeris was only half-an-Ancient and she still managed to get the job done. Matter a fact, maybe she knew that she gonna get killed sooner or later if she stick with the group. She is alone, Cloud is cuckoo most of the time and the rest of the group have too much personal problem to be any use to her.
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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4933 since: Oct 2001	Jul 14, 11 at 5:08am ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote lucedeoangel Plus Jenova bested the Cetra. Intelligence points go to Jenova, if it can trick beings who believe they can see their dead loved ones, even if they know full well what happens to the dead. Oh, I'm sorry ... are we any different here talking about how Sephiroth did this and that when we all could agree that Sephiroth DIED in Nibelheim incident? But the point remains - Jenova is intelligence enough to pull such stunt not once but twice. First with the Ancients - who could probably suffered a lot due to the first Meteor fall (which could lose many loved ones in the process). The second time is with the humans. Jenova made Gast and Hojo believe that she was a Cetra (An Ancient who have similar branch in evolutionary tree to the humans). She made Hojo "see" his dead son to the point that he actually believe he was helping Sephiroth to the end. She made Cloud see his hated enemy - Sephiroth throughout the game till Barret pointed out whether they have been chasing Sephiroth at all at the Northern crater. Bottomline - Jenova is good at manipulating ppl (and Ancients). But the good thing was, the Ancients managed to get their acts together and defeated her. Their only mistake was, they thought once Jenova died, it will remain dead.
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Aura moderator Action and Arcade [XBOX360] Dark Souls RPG [PS3] total posts: 6746 since: Jan 2004	Jul 14, 11 at 9:20am ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	I once read an interesting theory pertaining to the presence of Sephiroth, as I remember, it went into detail on Sephiroth not actually existing throughout the game as he was already dead, but it was Cloud who had the visions of him. If I can remember where I read this I'll link to it, as the guy who wrote it definitely put out some good theories (not to mention a decent read too). With everything that happens in FFVII (especially some of the more subtle things), it's no surprise that the plot is often misunderstood. =/ ------------------- Dark Souls \| Dark Souls II
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turel "Be free my friend, as the rest of us" forum fever total posts: 388 since: May 2002	Jul 14, 11 at 3:24pm ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote Aura I once read an interesting theory pertaining to the presence of Sephiroth, as I remember, it went into detail on Sephiroth not actually existing throughout the game as he was already dead, but it was Cloud who had the visions of him. If I can remember where I read this I'll link to it, as the guy who wrote it definitely put out some good theories (not to mention a decent read too). With everything that happens in FFVII (especially some of the more subtle things), it's no surprise that the plot is often misunderstood. =/ Wouldn't be to consistent as there were others apart from Cloud who "saw" Sephiroth. Palmer at the Shinra building, Tifa at Whirlwind Maze. I do however agree with you about the misunderstanding of the plot. Edit: I had to change your quote name from Evolution to Aura since I wrote this post since morning, but was having internet problems.
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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4933 since: Oct 2001	Jul 14, 11 at 3:36pm ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote turel Wouldn't be to consistent as there were others apart from Cloud who "saw" Sephiroth. Palmer at the Shinra building, Tifa at Whirlwind Maze. I do however agree with you about the misunderstanding of the plot. Actually, have anyone talked to the person who claimed to be Sephiroth in the game? If ya look carefully, except for Cloud and Aeris, hardly anyone talked to Sephiroth at CD1. They all had "seen" him from a distance but never actually interacted with him. I remember Aeris talking to him at the Temple of the Ancient and he was fading in and out. Except for that scene, I don't remember any other scene where Sephiroth actually spoke to anyone except for Cloud. And in Tifa's case, it was pretty windy at the Whirlwind maze so anyone who dressed up as Sephiroth (and claming to doing his Will) can be mistaken for Sephiroth. Also, don't anyone found it weird that Sephiroth could kill someone like President Shin Ra and then disappear, leaving several high-level executives like Palmer to swear Sephiroth did it? I think those high-level executives could benefit from Shin Ra's death more than Sephiroth, so why not blame an already dead person for the crime?
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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4933 since: Oct 2001	Jul 14, 11 at 3:40pm ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote Aura I once read an interesting theory pertaining to the presence of Sephiroth, as I remember, it went into detail on Sephiroth not actually existing throughout the game as he was already dead, but it was Cloud who had the visions of him. If I can remember where I read this I'll link to it, as the guy who wrote it definitely put out some good theories (not to mention a decent read too). With everything that happens in FFVII (especially some of the more subtle things), it's no surprise that the plot is often misunderstood. =/ Ya probably read one of my posts here. I have been telling the guys here the same thing for a long time - that Sephiroth had died but Jenova have been using his "image" and clones created from his cells (by Hojo) to do her bidding. Well, if ya like fanfics, ya probably like the one I just finished couple of months back.
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turel "Be free my friend, as the rest of us" forum fever total posts: 388 since: May 2002	Jul 14, 11 at 4:06pm ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote gobi1972 Actually, have anyone talked to the person who claimed to be Sephiroth in the game? If ya look carefully, except for Cloud and Aeris, hardly anyone talked to Sephiroth at CD1. They all had "seen" him from a distance but never actually interacted with him. I remember Aeris talking to him at the Temple of the Ancient and he was fading in and out. Except for that scene, I don't remember any other scene where Sephiroth actually spoke to anyone except for Cloud. And in Tifa's case, it was pretty windy at the Whirlwind maze so anyone who dressed up as Sephiroth (and claming to doing his Will) can be mistaken for Sephiroth. Also, don't anyone found it weird that Sephiroth could kill someone like President Shin Ra and then disappear, leaving several high-level executives like Palmer to swear Sephiroth did it? I think those high-level executives could benefit from Shin Ra's death more than Sephiroth, so why not blame an already dead person for the crime? Ok, you come up with many different points that each has to be taken into consideration. I'm not someone to blindly believe what I see or read here and there. But, Ultimania, is official I guess, so I've read a translation of the Guide, since it was originally in japanese, and I can't read japanese as of date. Before reading the translation, I saw many thing differently. But, I've come to accept the "truth" here. Sephiroth did control Jenova rather than it being the other way around. His substantial hold of her seemed to have something to do with his "strong" will. Okay, better let the guide speak for itself. Here, Ultimania. Check it out. While navigating, to make things easier, Ctrl+F and insert/search: *Sephiroth's will and Jenova's will* *The Sephiroth of the water altar* *As for those which have been chased so far* and finaly Also noteworthy is Sephiroth's unique case Hope this helps. Copy paste the entire bold sentence in the search box. Edit: All credits regarding the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega Translations v9.00 guide goes towards Ryu_Kaze for his hard work at translating this. Edit: Jul 14, 11 9:20am
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lucedeoangel seek-o-holic since: May 2007	Jul 14, 11 at 5:28pm ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	"in actuality, Sephiroth is controlling Jenova.". I KNEW I READ IT SOMEWHERE. victory dance ------------------- Steam: Likeabird PSN: Likeabird_
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turel "Be free my friend, as the rest of us" forum fever total posts: 388 since: May 2002	Jul 14, 11 at 6:07pm ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote lucedeoangel "in actuality, Sephiroth is controlling Jenova.". I KNEW I READ IT SOMEWHERE. victory dance to your victory dance. The game itself hints this, but really, it's not that hard to believe. Jenova should be the one in control since it is her cells infused in Sephiroth. But our boy hero's will was too great to allow this, thus he himself became the leader, the one in control. It is stated in the videogame itself at one point, that Sephiroth is "carrying" Jenova around. Don't look at the word carry itself, but rather the notion behind it. He was carrying her, he was dragging her, he was moving her. That said I hope it is clear now that it Sephiroth using Jenova to assimilate his image, appearing as Sephiroth.
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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4933 since: Oct 2001	Jul 15, 11 at 12:31am ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote lucedeoangel "in actuality, Sephiroth is controlling Jenova.". I KNEW I READ IT SOMEWHERE. victory dance Whoa ... such an intelligent statement. It is hard to dispute something like this so it must be true (Sarcasm).
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gobi1972 N'Somniac total posts: 4933 since: Oct 2001	Jul 15, 11 at 12:38am ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	quote turel That said I hope it is clear now that it Sephiroth using Jenova to assimilate his image, appearing as Sephiroth. Answer a simple question - WHY? Why does Sephiroth needs Jenova IF he is in control? Are the clones his clones or those of Jenova? IF they are his clones and he is in control, WHY does he need Jenova at all? IF those clones are Jenova's and she controlling them, WHY could she need Sephiroth (as a puppet)? He could be just another person with Jenova cells, hardly useful for anything except keeping Cloud and others at bay. By right, should be discarded right after Jenova finished using him. And if ya guys remember properly, at Whirlwind Maze, the apparition of Sephiroth actually stated that soon, he will not have ANY USE for the physical body at all (physical body here means Sephiroth's) and Barret asked whether they were actually been chasing Sephiroth or something else altogether. And lastly, IF Sephiroth was in control, then why is it that ya kept fighting Jenova forms and not once, actually fought any clones directly?
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Cyanide Still Seekin' since: Jun 2009	Jul 15, 11 at 12:45am ^ re: Can't Understand the Plot
	Jenova is who the whole damn plot centers around. Sephiroth is rescuing her so she can take Earth as her prize, and rule the promise land.
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