Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3) - Final Fantasy VII

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Miss Razz Full Of Gacktly Goodness (moderator) RPG [PS3] since: Sep 2003	Apr 19, 08 at 4:28am Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	Previous Sephiroth Discussion thread. quote "Even amongst the elite troops of SOLDIER, Sephiroth is known to be the best." A exceptional SOLDIER who served Shin-Ra, and the main antagonist of Final Fantasy VII. He was born as a result of Jenova cells injected into his mother whist she was pregnant, and therefore born with outstanding potential. He eventually learned of his connection with the alien Jenova and fell into madness. A profound hatred for humanity itself was born within him, as he looked to summon down Meteor and exploit the planet's destruction. Neoportal Continue with discussions here. ------------------- \| <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 \|
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Miss Razz Full Of Gacktly Goodness (moderator) RPG [PS3] since: Sep 2003	Apr 19, 08 at 4:28am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	Here are the last few posts from the previous thread: quote Mr Muffins ROFL! maybe two of those quotes make him even remotely sound cry babyish. His line "Tell me what you cherish most, and give me the pleasure of taking it from you" that is just a badass villain line. He is in no way a cry baby from that. Oh I'm sure that you wouldn't be a little shocked if you found out after 25 years of thinking you were a human you find out you are a monster. Funny how you consider that to be something a cry-baby would think. Have you ever found out that you weren't human you were just the product of some sick experiment and were a monster? I bet you wouldn't be upset. quote KH researcher I'd do the same exact things Sephiroth did, except I wouldn't speak to people inferior to me... I'd just eradicate them all, without trying to foolishly make up villainous one-liners, because frankly, there's a god to be made, and those ppl aren't a part of that process unless they're dead, sorry to say. Oh.. and while I have the chance to be in this scenario, I would have boned Aerith and Tifa before I killed them. ...and Scarlet..and Elena...and Shera...and Cissnei... wait...dammit, bleep becoming a god, there's so much tang to be had! quote Storm Woah, I Am Legend moment. quote Mr Muffins Honestly, if Sephiroth had just cut of Cloud's head in Advent Children instead of sticking him in the shoulder. I would have been happy if he didn't say a word for the entire movie. My love of Sephiroth is doubled by my hatred of Cloud. quote KH researcher If Sephiroth kills Cloud how will Sephiroth ever be able to come back if someone else were to defeat him? It'd be stupid to kill Cloud when Genesis and Weiss may be on the loose... Cloud is Sephiroth's last hope for reunion, since Genesis and his clones were not made by Hojo, and therefore not a part of Hojo's original reunion theory, especially since Genesis was born the same way as Sephiroth. quote Mr Muffins Yeah, here is the thing with Genesis though. At the end of Crisis Core he is supposedly a servant of the planet now and will be "the dew that quenches the land" and what not. So he is supposed to be a good guy now. However, in the secret ending of DoC we see that he comes back and is all evil and stuff. However, the odd thing about J-cells that I was thinking is that if Sephiroth can't become part of the lifestream then could Cloud, because he has J-cells too? Anyhoo, I don't think Genesis could beat Sephiroth. Especially with how Zack beat him even after he had been fully healed from degradation. Weiss, well I could see him as more of a problem for Sephiroth, mainly because Weiss posesses great speed than both Cloud and Genesis. It would be an interesting fight but the way I look at it. If Vincent could beat him, so could Sephiroth. ------------------- \| <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 \|
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KH researcher The Original Dr. Love true seeker (2K Remix) since: Oct 2003	Apr 19, 08 at 4:51am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	I think that becoming one with the Lifestream is like absorbing materia, since it's basically the same thing. You'd just need the capacity to absorb it all and you'd need the ability to be able to survive the damage done to the planet to bring forth all of the planet's energy. Cloud could possibly do this, since he's really the only person to survive supernatural Mako poisoning and be able to manipulate Jenova's infection (even though he hasn't fully figured out how he can do this). Genesis is also like an anti-Sephiroth... Sephiroth is the new Jenova and Genesis has become a new Weapon for the planet. That's what I think he means in the ending of DoC... he's not evil, he just has yet to best Sephiroth in their rivalry, and he needs to become the ultimate hero of the planet, whereas Sephiroth needs to become it's ultimate destroyer. I can only hope that if they do make another installment into FFVII they make it revolve around Genesis and Sephiroth battling for the planet... and Cloud performing reunion with Sephiroth, fusing both of their wills together making something even more powerful. But of course, Cloud by default is the ultimate hero, so Genesis would have to be defeated due to conflict of interest ^^ ------------------- \LotR: TTA/\KH: Final Mix/
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Mr Muffins Sogyo No Kotowari N'Somniac total posts: 4789 since: Feb 2008	Apr 19, 08 at 5:15am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	Yeah, I would be fine with them making Sephiroth good again somehow. I don't know, maybe if Cloud were to perform Reunion with Sephiroth it would make Sephiroth good again, that way Cloud could have still "ultimately defeated Sephiroth by making him good" in a way. Then Sephiroth could kill Genesis. In all honesty, the Sephiroth in Crisis Core is awesome, he is so brotherly to Zack. However, I would like to point out that my idea of the perfect ending to the last installment of FFVII compilation to be Sephiroth killing Cloud, then sailing through the Cosmos with the planet as his vessel. Just as Jenova had done before him. THAT, would be epic. -------------------
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Final Blade Legendary Seeker total posts: 16829 GameGrep pts: 13817 since: Nov 2006	Apr 19, 08 at 8:03am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	_{I just read the other closed topic, KH researcher, Tell me if people fused with J-cells and Mako can do the stuff that Sephiroth can, how come Zack wasn't able to? How come it had the reverse effect and made him weaker? So far you have not stated any proof that Sephiroth is 100% human, Changing ones DNA is called Hybrid, in the movie Underworld, Micheal was a hybrid cause not only did he have vampire cells, he also had Werewolf cells along with his human cells, is he human? Not entirely, but yea somewhat, that's the same thing here; Is Peter Parker a human, though got bitten from a Radioactive Spider? Some what yeah, but not 100% You can't be 100% human if your DNA strand gets spliced and changed. Those are what Scientists call HYBRIDS. Genesis and Angeal is a different story seeming how Hollander was quite a pathetic Scientist, he couldn't even make a stable sample of anything. Hojo and Ghast on the other hand are beyond brilliant, I'll go with Ghast more though. But i will give credit to Hojo making a perfect soldier. I love how you write off every single point me Muffins and Ray pointed out to make it seem your right and were not, seeming how SE are the ones stating the facts. He is the most powerful villain in FF7, and Well known Villain in all FF games imo. Genesis body was a failed experiment like Angeal, Hollander wasn't on the same level in intellect as Hojo which is why he never was able to be the scientist at shinra. So even if his will was as strong as Sephiroths, his body degrading the way it was wouldn't have make him better than Sephiroth, and imo he just cared more for loveless than anything else} ------------------- _{Welcome to Crisis Core forum} _{Welcome to Bad Company 2} _{God of War 3 official forum community}
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Ray_Masamune Masamune ~ Kokuu Giri Legendary Seeker total posts: 17286 since: Mar 2004	Apr 19, 08 at 10:22pm re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	Cloud is only as powerful as he is because of his S-cells. ~~~~~~~~~~ quote KH researcher Those quotes are only disillusionment to the truth. Cloud knows that he has the ability to beat Sephiroth, regardless of Sephiroth's abilities. He wouldn't have constantly kept on trying to find him and fight him if he thought he wasn't capable. He wanted revenge. People can do crazy things when their minds are clouded. For example, Zack fought off Shinra to see Aerith again. He died for it. In Cloud's case, he had friends and allies. Even Shinra were after Sephiroth and paved the way by destroying the Northern Barrier. It was also a life-or-death situation. If nobody stopped Sephiroth, the planet would be doomed. Faced with that situation, in addition to his hatred and anger, what else could Cloud do but go after his nemesis? It didn't matter if he couldn't defeat Sephiroth. He had to try, and lucky for him, Sephiroth was regenerating his own body and mentally holding back HOLY while fighting Cloud and his friends at the end. Needless to say, Sephiroth was the one at a disadvantage. Multi-tasking while being outnumbered. Sephiroth is indeed self-absorbed. Most villains are. He is indeed arogant. Most villains have to be. These weaknesses are in the majority of villains in order for the Hero to succeed. In Sephiroth's case, he has to be handicapped even further. Mako means limitless energy? How is it that Cloud is so exhausted and tired when fighting Sephiroth in AC after only a few exchanges? Zack also clearly had to tire eventually in order for the Shinra infantryman to get him down. Stop making excuses just because you dislike Sephiroth for his cry-baby attitude. The fact is, Sephiroth is, then and now, the most powerful warrior in the FF7 world. Nomura and Kitase themselves have stated the same. ------------------- FFVII ~ SCIV ~ FFIX ~ CC
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Mr Muffins Sogyo No Kotowari N'Somniac total posts: 4789 since: Feb 2008	Apr 20, 08 at 12:04am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	I already explained the whole situations for the three fights including how Sephiroth was summoning meteor, holding off holy, and fighting AVALANCHE all at the same time. He just blew them off and said they were only excuses when they were points that needed to be explained and pointed out. It is almost fruitless to try to explain it to him. He just won't listen. -------------------
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Final Blade Legendary Seeker total posts: 16829 GameGrep pts: 13817 since: Nov 2006	Apr 20, 08 at 12:28am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	_{As the saying goes, "ignorance is bliss". The creators of FF7 has stated this many times, that Sephiroth is the most powerful in FF7 universe. And until he is truly defeated by a stronger force, which Cloud at the moment hasn't proved himself, at least not killing him, Sephiroth will remain the top dog in FF7. As i said Zack getting injected with J-cells and More Mako made his body and 1st Class solider abilities dwindled cause of the immense doses, like Cloud, however since that was Clouds first Injection with Mako and J-cells on a massive dose in one go his body may be accepting it, rather to Zack. But Even still Sephiroth has controlled Cloud before using his mind, and he can do so any time he wishes. Thats also some that shouldn't be forgotten.} quote Definitions of Hybrid: the product of a cross between two genetically different parents The result of a cross between two different species or hybrids. The offspring of a cross between species or hybrids. The offspring of two parents differing in at least one genetic characteristic (trait). Also, heteroduplex DNA or DNA-RNA molecule an offspring produced by parents of two different species crossed: produced by crossbreeding Something of mixed origin or composition bred from two distinct races, breeds, varieties, species, or genera. An organism that is the offspring of two parents that differ in one or more inheritable characteristics, especially the offspring of two different varieties of the same species or the offspring of two parents belonging to different species. In agriculture and animal husbandry, hybrids of different varieties and species are bred in order to combine the favorable characteristics of the parents. This message was edited by Final Blade on Apr 19 2008. ------------------- _{Welcome to Crisis Core forum} _{Welcome to Bad Company 2} _{God of War 3 official forum community}
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Ray_Masamune Masamune ~ Kokuu Giri Legendary Seeker total posts: 17286 since: Mar 2004	Apr 20, 08 at 12:38am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	Cloud has to win, Final Blade. Although it's kind of sad, he'll win even if he's weaker than the villain. ------------------- FFVII ~ SCIV ~ FFIX ~ CC
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KH researcher The Original Dr. Love true seeker (2K Remix) since: Oct 2003	Apr 20, 08 at 12:43am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	quote I just read the other closed topic, KH researcher, Tell me if people fused with J-cells and Mako can do the stuff that Sephiroth can, how come Zack wasn't able to? How come it had the reverse effect and made him weaker? Because Zack had a some type of immunity, or immuno-reation to Jenova's cells that prevented them from taking hold in the way that they do others. quote So far you have not stated any proof that Sephiroth is 100% human, Changing ones DNA is called Hybrid, in the movie Underworld, Micheal was a hybrid cause not only did he have vampire cells, he also had Werewolf cells along with his human cells, is he human? Not entirely, but yea somewhat, that's the same thing here; Is Peter Parker a human, though got bitten from a Radioactive Spider? Some what yeah, but not 100% You can't be 100% human if your DNA strand gets spliced and changed. Those are what Scientists call HYBRIDS. A hybrid in science is a genetic crossing between two animals or plants of different taxa, or the selected breeding of plants or animals because they have desirable characteristics not found or inconsistently present in the parent individuals or population. By this definition, specimens of the Jenova project are not hybrids, as injecting a lifeform's (Jenova's) somatic cells into other lifeforms is in no way hybridization. Sephiroth is a result of human genetic engineering[ not cross-breeding] which is the genetic engineering of humans by modifying the genotype of the unborn individual to control what traits it will possess when born. More specifically, he is the result of Germline engineering, which would change genes in eggs, sperm, or very early embryos. This type of engineering is inheritable, meaning that the modified genes would appear not only in any children that resulted from the procedure, but in all succeeding generations. This application is by far the more consequential as it could open the door to the perpetual and irreversible alteration of the human species. It, however does not make a person not human, just an altered one that has the possibility to change it's species later down the line by it's offspring's evolution (if it is to occur), making the genotypes and phenotypes grouped to be of different species than H.s.sapiens. But this is not the case with Sephiroth, as his speciesal characteristics remained the same (esp. since Jenova has the characteristics of a pathogenic virus whose traits are neither desired or compatible with any lifeforms on Gaia). Also, by you last statement-- are people with down syndrome not human because they're DNA is changed from how it is originally meant to be? Statements of that nature are more like judgment calls rather than scientific fact. quote Cloud is only as powerful as he is because of his S-cells This is not necessarily true. The whole point of Cloud being able to overthrow Sephiroth while being an infantryman brings forth evidence that regardless of what SOLDIERs are injected with, they still can be defeated by things other than just brute strength (since that quality will only get you so far). Also, the fact that Cloud has a certain resistance to Sephiroth and Jenova's cells makes him stronger than those who do not, in terms of genetics. ------------------- \LotR: TTA/\KH: Final Mix/
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Final Blade Legendary Seeker total posts: 16829 GameGrep pts: 13817 since: Nov 2006	Apr 20, 08 at 12:44am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	_{Who says he has to win? I don't recall the Compilation being over and i haven't heard anything from SE stating it was going to be a Happy ever after ending. While it seems to be leaning so far, im not ruling out that a darker ending isn't possible. Also as you guys can see i edited my post with definitions of the word Hybird, and all of them proves that Sephiroth is a Hybrid, a born one though, a genetically altered embryo which ended up as Sephiroth.} ------------------- _{Welcome to Crisis Core forum} _{Welcome to Bad Company 2} _{God of War 3 official forum community}
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KH researcher The Original Dr. Love true seeker (2K Remix) since: Oct 2003	Apr 20, 08 at 12:49am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	All of those definitions deal with the main thing that in fact prevents Sephiroth from being a hybrid: OFFSPRING. Sephiroth is the offspring of Lucrecia and Hojo (HUMANS), not Jenova, and is therefore not a hybrid. He is a genetically engineered human, and that is all. ------------------- \LotR: TTA/\KH: Final Mix/
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Mr Muffins Sogyo No Kotowari N'Somniac total posts: 4789 since: Feb 2008	Apr 20, 08 at 12:50am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	Thus leading up to the final episode of the FFVII saga. Final Fantasy VII: Apocalypse Sephiroth returns (in a manner I have yet to decide) and ravages the world with his insane power. All former AVALANCHE members attempt to bring him down as a group. However, he immobilizes each member as the fight progresses until he is left with only Cloud. Sephiroth and Cloud then exchange a few words. They then begin their most epic fight yet. Cloud now armed with Ultimate weapon and the 1st Tsurugi (he alternates which one he uses while keep the other in various locations across the battle field, stabbing one into the ground then grabbing the other. This way he is not weighted down and people will be like "oh well Cloud was being weighed down".) Sephiroth once again seems to have the battle in hand when out of nowhere Cloud pulls off an Omnislash level 5. A close up of Sephiroth's face reveals a smirk, then Sephiroth dodges the first blows of the omnislash at the speed of light. The last sword breaks when it touches Sephiroth's chest. Sephiroth then grabs a surprised Cloud by the throat and throws him into the ground with immense power creating a giant crater where Cloud lands. Cloud however picks up the Ultimate weapon and continues the fight. After another long battle scene Cloud launches a final desperation strike at Sephiroth. Sephiroth evades the attack and stabs Cloud through the throat. He then flings him off of his blade towards the ground. He walks towards the dying Cloud. Right before Cloud dies he hears Sephiroth say "I will never be a memory." Cloud dies and Sephiroth Summons Meteor giving him the power of the lifestream. He then flies through the cosmos with the earth as his vessel. THE END! -------------------
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Ray_Masamune Masamune ~ Kokuu Giri Legendary Seeker total posts: 17286 since: Mar 2004	Apr 20, 08 at 1:14am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	quote KH researcher This is not necessarily true. The whole point of Cloud being able to overthrow Sephiroth while being an infantryman brings forth evidence that regardless of what SOLDIERs are injected with, they still can be defeated by things other than just brute strength (since that quality will only get you so far). There is no explanation for it though. Cloud got a sneak-attack on Hollander, a lowly cowardly scientist. And yet, Hollander elbowed him and Cloud fell down reeling. This was before Hollander had any genetic infusions, so he was just a regular human. Sephiroth on the other hand, could toy around with two 1st Class SOLDIERs (Already superior to 2nd class which are superior to 3rd class which are superior to Shinra infantry which Cloud recently joined). Sephiroth, who one-hit kills Summons, is regarded as the greatest SOLDIER ever, and can cut through massive structures of solid steel like a hot knife through butter. And Cloud trumps Sephiroth in Nibelheim. It makes no sense. Even taking into account the anger and emotion that Cloud was feeling, there's no believable way that Cloud could do that to Sephiroth, given what we knew about them prior to that scenario. We can only assume that Sephiroth was exhausted from reading books for some 170 hours straight, and then burning everything and killing everything, humans and monsters included, on his way to the Reactor; and then from the fight with Zack and the wound from the Buster Sword, coupled with the distraction of Jenova. Hell, if that Mako pit wasn't there, Cloud would not have won. Destiny can do crazy things, but the bottom line is Sephiroth > Cloud in normal (fair) situations. ------------------- FFVII ~ SCIV ~ FFIX ~ CC
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Mr Muffins Sogyo No Kotowari N'Somniac total posts: 4789 since: Feb 2008	Apr 20, 08 at 1:19am re: Sephiroth - Discussion (Version 3)
	Agreed, a lot of people aren't even thinking about the fact that the wound from the buster sword that pierced all the way through him. Absolutely ripped his lungs to shreds possibly ripping his heart up too. If you want to keep saying he is human, then winning a fight without working lungs and a shredded heart is pretty impossible odds. -------------------
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