re: Altec Lansing 641 - Page 5 - Audiophiles, Audiolovers, Audio junkies

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james-ch unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Jun 11, 05 at 9:06pm ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	Log in to remove this sponsored message I remember Altec Lansing...my first computer speakers (that I paid for outside of what came with OEM computers). It was the Altec Lansing ATP5(or 4), and they were awesome in terms of clarity, although they couldn't put out much volume, even in a small room before they distorted (somewhere around 60% volume). They always had style, the Altecs, but always seemed to cost more than other products and appeared gimmicky, until I saw the 621/641 series. I never bought them mind you, they were well over my budget. Then the Logitech Z-560s came out, and I jumped the bandwagon when the Z-680s came out later, with the control pod and all (and bigger sub to this day I stuff full of socks to keep the rattling down). I went through two more upgrades, first a 5.1 set of Athena Audition speakers, and now onto a pair of Axiom M22tis. But there's still something alluring about those 641s...the sub does look very stylish.
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Scoob86 newseeker total posts: 13 since: Nov 2004	Jun 26, 05 at 4:30am ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	Hi Gang, it's me again. I just wanted to let you all know that I have developed a pretty good skill on repairing the 641 sub. What I'm attempting to do is locate 641's for parts. For this reason I can start troubleshooting/repairing what I have and offer the repaired boards, on an exchange basis, to those of you who wish to have your 641 sub repaired. So far I have repaired three, with the one from ebay being the "sacreficial lamb". I also posted a website on the 641. If your looking for information try looking there. I have a couple of links to where you can buy parts and download datasheets. http://www.geocities.com/brandy3599/ACS641.html WANTED: 641's for parts, they do not have to be complete systems. Any one who cannot or does not wish to repair their 641. Please E-mail me for a shipping address and what you have and a description of the problem. I will return the shipping cost to you, just include the receipt. It doesn't cost anything to put it out for trash pick-up. It won't cost you much to ship it, just a little time on your part. Brent This message was edited by scoob on Sep 14 2006.
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c_martini Neo-newbie total posts: 5 since: Jun 2005	Jun 30, 05 at 11:49am ^ Altec Lansing 641 power supply
	Ahh the best inexpensive set of speakers i've ever owned. Well here's my story and my question. I have not yet run into the sub dying problem that you all speak of. I had the system for less than a year before I relocated to London, UK from the US for work. My 641's sat and collected dust for over a year before I asked someone to bring them over to me this past december. Well, since they are a U.S. model they run on 110v at 60hz. I searched high and low for a step down transformer so that I could use the speakers with the UK 220v 50hz power here. I was only able to find a small transformer that stepped the voltage down to 110 properly, but gave no indication on whether or not it could alter the 60hz to 50hz (I suspect not). Well I plugged it in and POOF! a popping sound and a puff of smoke. I never was able to get them working here in London. I have tried to get into the sub to see what popped, but had troubles. Now that I have read this great forum thread, I know how to get into the sub. I suspect the power supply is probably toast and I would like to replace it or repair it. What I need to know is: Details on the power supply. What are the specs? wattage? Does it feed dc into the amp boards? What dc voltage output is needed? Could I substitute a pc psu to supply it power? How could I convert my sub's power supply to use the UK voltage (220v 50hz)? I am fairly good finding my way around circuit boards as I did go to school for electronics a million years ago, so I think I could probably fix the problem with a bit of help. Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
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KuoH unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Jul 02, 05 at 9:58pm ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	Was the noise and smoke from the sub or the transformer? You do not need to convert the power frequency on devices that are not timing sensitive or contain AC motors, just voltage. Is the fuse in the back of the sub still intact? What likely happened is that the tiny transformer couldn't deliver the current the sub needed and burned out. Whether the sub is damaged or not depends on whether the transformer allowed any 220V to leak through when the coils melted. KuoH
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Chris M unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Jul 03, 05 at 7:27pm ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	quote KuoH Was the noise and smoke from the sub or the transformer? The popping noise and small puff of smoke came from one of the sub ports. quote KuoH Is the fuse in the back of the sub still intact? The fuse is intact, I tested with a meter to be sure. I have now disassembled the sub and removed the power supply board and 2 large transformers. Unfortunately, there are no obviosly burned out parts. When I was in tech school, usually when something made that popping noise, it was a barrel type capacitor burning out. They are sometimes hard to tell by looking at them whether or not they are the culprit. There are two large 50v 4700uF capacitors on this power supply board. I am not sure, but its possible it could be one of these, although again, there is no visible indication of this. I will need to figure out how I can test these components individually on the limited equipment I have available (an old multimeter). Also, I wonder if its possible to simply replace these two large transformers with 220v 50hz versions, once the power supply board is repaired so I can use the sub with the Uk mains power without having to use an external transformer. Again, thanks and any advice and helpful info is greatly appreciated.
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KuoH unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Jul 03, 05 at 8:05pm ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	You can test capacitors with an old meter, but you really should invest in a new DMM with capacitor and diode test functions if you're going to get deeper into this, they're pretty cheap anyways. It should be a simple matter to replace the 641's transformer with a 220V equivalent as long as you can determine what the secondary voltage of the original one was. KuoH
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KuoH unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Jul 03, 05 at 8:25pm ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	Hey Scoob, Any links to this datasheet or schematic? My google searches turned up the datasheets, but none contained the "hint" section. KuoH quote Scoob In reference to the "hint" on sub amplifier, the 6609a & 6612 datasheet shows an identical circuit of the sub amplifier circuit in the 641.
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Scoob86 newseeker total posts: 13 since: Nov 2004	Jul 04, 05 at 7:36pm ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	Hi everyone, I'll start with an explanation of the 641 power supply. The 641 contains two power supplies, one for the satellite/controller module, the other for the sub amplifier board. The power supplies are located in the bottom of the sub-woofer enclosure. The transformers used in the 641 are 120VAC only. If your looking to replace your transformers, I would make sure that everything else is working. The power requirements for the sub amp board is 20VAC / 6A @ JP4. The satellite/controller module requires +/- 30V DC / 2.5A @ J10, and +5V DC / .35A @ J8. I gathered this information from a 641 sub that I had scrapped. If the sub was plugged into 220VAC and you hear, snap, crackle, pop, that is not good. I have never seen a transformer burn by itself, its usually what it's connected to shorts and then burns it out. My guess would be the voltage on the output side doubled, since the input doubled, therefore damaging any components that are connected to it, which can be extensive. (also rhymes with expensive) A little about capacitors: When the voltage across an electrolytic capacitor (the ones that look like cans) exceeds the rated voltage, they generally blow up. Electrolyitcs will also develop a "domed" can when the supply is irregular, I have seen this alot on PC motherboards used with cheap power supplies. Electrolytics will also blow-up when connected backwards (reverse polarity). Here are the part numbers and manufacturer of the transformers used, if your looking to replace them with 220VAC versions. Sub-Amp: Manufacturer - AMC P/N A7126 Model # 9901-19076-3UMW Input - 117VAC/60Hz Output - 19.5VAC/6000mA Satellite/Controller Module: Manufacturer - AMC P/N A7380 Model # 9901-18976-3UMW Input - 117VAC/60Hz Output - V1 - 23VAC/250mA / 21VAC/2.5A V2 - 7.5VAC/.35A KouH, quote "In reference to the "hint" on sub amplifier, the 6609a & 6612 datasheet shows an identical circuit of the sub amplifier circuit in the 641." This is wrong, my apologies. It should've said: In reference to the "hint" on sub amplifier, the LX1711CDB datasheet shows an identical circuit of the sub amplifier circuit used in the 641." http://www.microsemi.com/datasheets/lx1710_11.pdf You can download the data sheet, or the evaluation kit datasheet for the LX1711CDB from MicroSemi. The typical application shows an identical schematic of the sub-amplifier section used in the 641. This is not a complete schematic of the sub-amp board itself, just the amplifier section. Anyone have a 641 satellite? I roasted one, when I was testing a 641 sub I bought from ebay.
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c_martini Neo-newbie total posts: 5 since: Jun 2005	Jul 05, 05 at 8:45am ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	Firstly, Thanks for all the help to both Kuoh and Scoob! quote Scoob If the sub was plugged into 220VAC and you hear, snap, crackle, pop, that is not good. I have never seen a transformer burn by itself, its usually what it's connected to shorts and then burns it out. My guess would be the voltage on the output side doubled, since the input doubled, therefore damaging any components that are connected to it, which can be extensive. (also rhymes with expensive) I did in fact use a step down transformer (220v to 120v), but I suspect that it was far too small for the job. It was rated at 1600w but I just don't think it could deliver the current the sub needed. In my confusion, I noted that the sub was rated at 400w. I assumed as the step down transformer was rated for 1600w that it would do the job. I assumed wrong. quote Scoob A little about capacitors: When the voltage across an electrolytic capacitor (the ones that look like cans) exceeds the rated voltage, they generally blow up. Electrolyitcs will also develop a "domed" can when the supply is irregular, I have seen this alot on PC motherboards used with cheap power supplies. Electrolytics will also blow-up when connected backwards (reverse polarity). There is no indication of this effect on any of the electrolytics. In fact its weird. There is absolutely no visual indication of damage to any part of the power supply board or two transformers at all. Yet I did hear a single light pop and a see small puff of smoke coming from one of the sub's rear ports. In fact I cannot even smell anything burned out at all. I may have to remove the other boards in the system to see if I can find any burned components as surely with that bit of smoke and popping, there should have been some obvious physical damage to something in there... At any rate, I will begin the tedious task of individually testing as many of the individual components as possible and post my progress to this forum. Thanks again for the help,
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guy767 unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Jul 06, 05 at 4:38pm ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	hey guys, great thread! my sub died on me too and i love it and would like to attempt to repair it before its gone forever but i do not know how to get in to the box. If someone could help me out with that please that would be great!
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rade unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Jul 06, 05 at 8:44pm ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	Hey all, I've had two of these systems and both subs died after about a year and a half of good use. They were the best speakers ive ever had, but i miss the sub pumping out the bass so much. I really want to get mine repaired but I have no idea where to source the parts in Australia. In response to guy767's post, after reading this thread I found that the best way to get into the box was to remove the top speaker + grill(takes a while), but I haven't got any further than that. Any advice or helpful info is greatly appreciated.
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Scoob86 newseeker total posts: 13 since: Nov 2004	Jul 06, 05 at 11:49pm ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	Hi Everybody, I have compiled a procedure, with pictures, on how to disassemble the 641 sub. I saved it as a .doc file so it will open in WordPad (WinXP) if you do not have MSWorks2000, Office2000, or greater. It is a fairly large file, about 5MB, to be sending over E-mail. I will send this to anyone who would like to have it, just send me an E-mail. You may add or remove any notes if you like as well. Your feedback is appreciated too, as I can always add or change it for the better. Good luck on your repairs. Brent This message was edited by Scoob on Jul 06 2005. This message was edited by scoob on Sep 14 2006.
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Scoob86 newseeker total posts: 13 since: Nov 2004	Jul 08, 05 at 2:16am ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	Hello, c-martini, I've been racking my brain on how your sub popped and smoked with a step down transformer. The one you have chosen (1600w) should've been more than enough to power the 641. The only other thing that I could come up with is, you may have had a line voltage on the audio in. On some audio equipment I have noticed that the audio I/O ground is shared with the chassis ground, also earth ground, which is not isolated. This said, it would mean that the ground for the audio I/O were not the same point, one isolated, the other not isolated, creating a difference in ground points. If your 641 was plugged into a PC, then I'm stumped, because I'm not sure if the audio I/O ground is shared with chassis/case. My guess the audio ground on a PC would be isolated, maybe not? I'm sorry I'm not much help this time. Hey rade, Try these sites for electronic parts in Australia: http://www.rsaustralia.com/cgi-bin/bv/home/Home.jsp?cacheID=aunetscape http://www.ferret.com.au/Companies/Arrow-Electronics-Australia Thought I'd stop by and share some thoughts.
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c_martini Neo-newbie total posts: 5 since: Jun 2005	Jul 08, 05 at 8:32am ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	quote Scoob I've been racking my brain on how your sub popped and smoked with a step down transformer. The one you have chosen (1600w) should've been more than enough to power the 641. The only other thing that I could come up with is, you may have had a line voltage on the audio in. On some audio equipment I have noticed that the audio I/O ground is shared with the chassis ground, also earth ground, which is not isolated. This said, it would mean that the ground for the audio I/O were not the same point, one isolated, the other not isolated, creating a difference in ground points. If your 641 was plugged into a PC, then I'm stumped, because I'm not sure if the audio I/O ground is shared with chassis/case. My guess the audio ground on a PC would be isolated, maybe not? I'm sorry I'm not much help this time. Scoob, you've already been alot of help providing those dissassembly instructions. I didn't expect there would be many people (if at all) with my problem as I have taken a product designed for U.S. voltage to the UK. In the past, i've used a large step down transformer for my U.S. hifi equipment, which worked a charm. Recently I've had to downsize my life a bit and sell all the big stuff that I didn't want to move around with, so I sold off most of that equipment including the big step down transformer. This new small one I got is obviously too small for the job just by looking at it. I should have never used it in the first place. I should've known that to step the voltage and provide the current required, I should have used one the size of the previous one I had. that one was large (6" high x 10" deep x 7" wide). As far as the isolated ground goes, it was being fed audio from my pc. In fact the same pc that fed audio to it in the States. I have tried to track down a UK version of this sub second-hand on ebay but with no luck. Apparently these didn't sell as well over here and I have tried emailing Altec Lansing to find a replacement power supply for a UK model, but they never replied to my email. I assume as they no longer make or support this product, they are no longer interested in its support... I also have had no luck finding replacement transformers for the power supply section that would take 220v on the primary. I think I may just have to purchase a large transformer again like the old one I had to do the job and go in and try to find the faulty parts in the sub. thanks again and I will post my progress on this forum. Chris
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MyPrivate Neo-newbie total posts: 5 since: Jul 2005	Jul 14, 05 at 11:42pm ^ re: Altec Lansing 641
	quote Scoob Hey Gang, Just thought I would stop by and say hello, and to let you all know that my 641 is still working since I fixed it in October '04. So, for those of you who are electronic savy, please follow my posts (Scoob & Scoob2). I have also been working on reverse engineering the 641 from a burned out sub I bought from ebay. In the process, I contacted Micro-Semi about the LX1711CDB Linfinity Amplifier Controller IC, which has been discontinued. This means "dark clouds" for the 641, which makes it impossible to repair. The only way to get this chip is to either pay through the nose for it, or call Micro-Semi and request the evaluation kit for the LX1711CDB, not sure of the cost. I'm also working on putting together a procedure (w/ pictures) on how to disassemble the 641. Altec Lansing won't release documentation on the 641, so I will, anything I have on the 641 is FREE for anyone who can use it. WANTED: ALTEC LANSING 641 PARTS FOR TROUBLESHOOTING/ENGINEERING. Anyone who has a 641 and doesn't wish to repair it or cannot repair it, do not throw it away! Please E-mail me for a shipping address, I will return the shipping cost to you. BrAndy3599@yahoo.com I do have a small problem, maybe you can help, anyone know how to export an AutoCad drawing to a picture file, .jpg, .bmp, etc. Thanks ------------------- Favorite Sites http://www.brokenprices.com http://www.diveshow.com
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